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Post by Genomico on Apr 30, 2013 6:36:18 GMT 1
I would love that and even prefer 10 spots instead of 2.
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Post by JoeLag on Apr 30, 2013 8:49:57 GMT 1
How about adding two U-21 training spots to ALL teams? Open those two training spots to riders you bought and to riders you pulled. - that reduces the benefit to the top teams who can only keep and train two additional U21 riders - it gives every team a chance to add and train two additional U-21 riders - every team in the game will have a chance to add two U-21 riders to their team. That's an additional ~1,000 youth riders, which should result in a steady flow of trained riders in the game for the future - opening the training spots to purchased riders will help support the market for U21 riders because every team has room for two riders How about 3 U-21 races? 5 seems too much, unless the calendar is expanded; and 1 race is not enough, particularly if we add two U-21 training slots. As mentioned earlier, many of us, including me, like to put a U-21 rider into short tours to gather a few points, so even if there were no U-21 races, I'd still keep two or three around to compete for white jersey points. How about some prize money for white jerseys? Maybe 50% of KOM or Points jerseys for the top 3 finishers in U-21 competition? How about changing the age of youth pulls to 18, 19 or 20? (iirc, currently it is 18, 19, 20, 21, or 22 but I could be wrong - it's been a long time since I had a YS.) I think it's okay that 1/3 of the pulls be useless 20yos. That's realistic. If it currently is 18-thru-22, that's just too many useless riders, imo. These changes would feel quite balanced to me, and would spread the benefits of YS'ing to all teams. Wow! Finally some balanced suggestions! I really like that much more than the inititially idea. I 100% support Lee's ideas!
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Post by Ab Normaal on Apr 30, 2013 22:52:25 GMT 1
How about adding two U-21 training spots to ALL teams? Open those two training spots to riders you bought and to riders you pulled. - that reduces the benefit to the top teams who can only keep and train two additional U21 riders - it gives every team a chance to add and train two additional U-21 riders - every team in the game will have a chance to add two U-21 riders to their team. That's an additional ~1,000 youth riders, which should result in a steady flow of trained riders in the game for the future - opening the training spots to purchased riders will help support the market for U21 riders because every team has room for two riders How about 3 U-21 races? 5 seems too much, unless the calendar is expanded; and 1 race is not enough, particularly if we add two U-21 training slots. As mentioned earlier, many of us, including me, like to put a U-21 rider into short tours to gather a few points, so even if there were no U-21 races, I'd still keep two or three around to compete for white jersey points. How about some prize money for white jerseys? Maybe 50% of KOM or Points jerseys for the top 3 finishers in U-21 competition? How about changing the age of youth pulls to 18, 19 or 20? (iirc, currently it is 18, 19, 20, 21, or 22 but I could be wrong - it's been a long time since I had a YS.) I think it's okay that 1/3 of the pulls be useless 20yos. That's realistic. If it currently is 18-thru-22, that's just too many useless riders, imo. These changes would feel quite balanced to me, and would spread the benefits of YS'ing to all teams. Wow! Finally some balanced suggestions! I really like that much more than the inititially idea. I 100% support Lee's ideas! Then it won't be a surpise for you that I don't. Adding two extra spots means that everybody has 27 riders in stead of 25, only minor detail is that 2 should be U21. 5 U21 races isn't too much. That rewards somebody who choses to have young riders. 3 doesn't on about 80 races. Prize money and a few more points for white jerseys is a good idea, but mentioned before. Maximum age of pulls have been talked about before. I hope Nikeboy can say if this will be changed for this season to only 18 and 19 years old....
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Post by NikeBoy on May 1, 2013 13:30:46 GMT 1
Youthpulls will be 18 and 19 from next season onwards, the only change so far ...
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Post by Ab Normaal on May 1, 2013 14:39:15 GMT 1
Youthpulls will be 18 and 19 from next season onwards, the only change so far ... Next season, as in now, season 6, or season 7?
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Post by NikeBoy on May 1, 2013 15:35:31 GMT 1
Season 6 is the plan
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Post by Ab Normaal on May 2, 2013 7:45:15 GMT 1
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Post by zirter on May 3, 2013 12:51:15 GMT 1
I 've got a young scout I hope it 'll be productive.
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Post by ElGringo on May 3, 2013 13:15:15 GMT 1
I 've got a young scout I hope it 'll be productive. I think that you should have wait till Nikeboy make an announcement of the scout.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jul 18, 2013 11:22:10 GMT 1
Youthpulls will be 18 and 19 from next season onwards, the only change so far ... Season 6 is already over the half. Has the other suggestions considering the YS been investigated? How about the 5 extra spots for own pulls?
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Post by kurtinsc on Jul 18, 2013 18:49:34 GMT 1
Youthpulls will be 18 and 19 from next season onwards, the only change so far ... Season 6 is already over the half. Has the other suggestions considering the YS been investigated? How about the 5 extra spots for own pulls? Still against the idea. I'm fine with adding more U21 races (which increases the value of U21 riders). I'm fine with making YS's cheaper. Either of those will impact the cost-benefit of the YS without changing balance much. Adding 5 extra training spots for your own pulls... or even 2... that's a HUGE impact. I'm using several spots on young riders now, and I'm sacrificing training riders who are contributing points at the moment to do so. That's a choice teams should need to make. You shouldn't be able to do everything... and having multi-skilled trainers along with increased training slots for having a YS essentially allows rich teams to do everything.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jul 18, 2013 22:44:59 GMT 1
Season 6 is already over the half. Has the other suggestions considering the YS been investigated? How about the 5 extra spots for own pulls? Still against the idea. I'm fine with adding more U21 races (which increases the value of U21 riders). I'm fine with making YS's cheaper. Either of those will impact the cost-benefit of the YS without changing balance much. Adding 5 extra training spots for your own pulls... or even 2... that's a HUGE impact. I'm using several spots on young riders now, and I'm sacrificing training riders who are contributing points at the moment to do so. That's a choice teams should need to make. You shouldn't be able to do everything... and having multi-skilled trainers along with increased training slots for having a YS essentially allows rich teams to do everything. Kurtinsc, I am doing that to now, but, as you say, it will cost you valuable points. That means that, in your opinion, it should be impossible to win 1st division with a YS. I am not saying it should be implemented (although I think it should), but I think it should at least be investigated. Because of the U21 races, you see managers hiring a YS. In the beginning of the season, prices were ok. But now they are already bad again and it costs loads of money to have one.
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Post by kurtinsc on Jul 19, 2013 4:26:31 GMT 1
Still against the idea. I'm fine with adding more U21 races (which increases the value of U21 riders). I'm fine with making YS's cheaper. Either of those will impact the cost-benefit of the YS without changing balance much. Adding 5 extra training spots for your own pulls... or even 2... that's a HUGE impact. I'm using several spots on young riders now, and I'm sacrificing training riders who are contributing points at the moment to do so. That's a choice teams should need to make. You shouldn't be able to do everything... and having multi-skilled trainers along with increased training slots for having a YS essentially allows rich teams to do everything. Kurtinsc, I am doing that to now, but, as you say, it will cost you valuable points. That means that, in your opinion, it should be impossible to win 1st division with a YS. I am not saying it should be implemented (although I think it should), but I think it should at least be investigated. Because of the U21 races, you see managers hiring a YS. In the beginning of the season, prices were ok. But now they are already bad again and it costs loads of money to have one. No, I think it should be impossible to win first division and develop a youth team while doing so. If you can win the first division AND recruit your next generation of riders AND train them up... then it's going to be nearly impossible for anyone to unseat you. This is both something that should be encouraged in order to prevent teams from easily having a strangle-hold on the top spots int he game, but also realistic. In real life, even teams with "farm" teams don't automatically get those riders... they still have to bid on them. Tejay Van Garderen was in the "farm system" for Rabobank, but he didn't end up signing his first pro-deal with them. Taylor Phinney was in the Radioshack farm system but went to BMC for his pro-deal instead. I'm fine with lowering the price of a YS. I'm fine with having more U21 races. I'm not saying you're wrong about them being undervalued. I'm simply against the idea of getting extra training spots for having a YS. There HAS to be a tradeoff for training young talent in order to give teams the chance to advance. If you can just create your own pipe-line of riders within your own team, then it's going to entrench the profitable teams even more. I'm trading off results today in order to have a stronger team 3-5 seasons down the road. If everyone can do that without impacting their current results... then they all will. How am I going to advance then? Right now I can make a trade off in order to be stronger in the future. If we change the system so that no tradeoff is required... then advancement becomes much, much harder.
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Post by Genomico on Jul 19, 2013 12:06:15 GMT 1
I think the amount of U21 races is fine. It shouldn't be too much, so 4 races are fine. I really hope I the extra training spots will come, because it will be a very very nice addition to the game. I think training youngsters could even be the most fun part of the game, but as it is now it's just not worth it to get one, which is a shame (edit: and solving this with more U21 races is not the way to do get more fun).
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Post by kurtinsc on Jul 22, 2013 14:26:40 GMT 1
I think the amount of U21 races is fine. It shouldn't be too much, so 4 races are fine. I really hope I the extra training spots will come, because it will be a very very nice addition to the game. I think training youngsters could even be the most fun part of the game, but as it is now it's just not worth it to get one, which is a shame (edit: and solving this with more U21 races is not the way to do get more fun). Why not? By adding training spots for U21, you essentially allow every team to focus on youth while still able to compete in the other races. The only teams that will have to make a choice are the poor teams. By adding more U21 races, there's an incentive to train U21, but you'll still have to make a choice... you have to take away from your ability to compete in the other races to focus on young riders. Every team will have to make that choice... rich and poor... because regardless of how much money you have you only get 25 training spots. It's NOT fun to change the system so that teams can win in every area. Teams should have to choose where to put their efforts. Those choices are what makes the game competitive... and competition is what makes the game fun. Not being able to beat everyone at everything.
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