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Post by Ab Normaal on Apr 6, 2013 22:42:06 GMT 1
Well, poll has been closed. Let's ask Nikeboy if it is possible that this will be implemented also in the next season.
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Post by rarau on Apr 6, 2013 23:03:07 GMT 1
Well, poll has been closed. Let's ask Nikeboy if it is possible that this will be implemented also in the next season. we hope so.
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Post by NikeBoy on Apr 7, 2013 11:15:42 GMT 1
IP and I think it has some potential, but there are still some important things to be tuned :
1. What about the managers who have fired their youthscout recently ? We have no historical data on youthscouts, so we can't track who had a YS recently. How can we compensate ?
2. Do we change the max. pull age to 18/19 ? If so, should we change the total skillpoints ?
3. Rich teams will be able to afford a YS, poor teams won't. Are we not making the rich teams even more richer if they are able to sell super youth cyclists ?
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Post by Ab Normaal on Apr 7, 2013 11:29:44 GMT 1
IP and I think it has some potential, but there are still some important things to be tuned : 1. What about the managers who have fired their youthscout recently ? We have no historical data on youthscouts, so we can't track who had a YS recently. How can we compensate ? 2. Do we change the max. pull age to 18/19 ? If so, should we change the total skillpoints ? 3. Rich teams will be able to afford a YS, poor teams won't. Are we not making the rich teams even more richer if they are able to sell super youth cyclists ? 1. We can't, but we couldn't also with the teams who invested in multiskill trainers when we changed that. 2.Yes, only 18 and 19, but don't change the skill points. 3. Make it cheap to have one. It is an investment for the future. It takes years and years for topteams before their pulls can be succesfull.
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Post by NikeBoy on Apr 7, 2013 11:38:33 GMT 1
1. We can't, but we couldn't also with the teams who invested in multiskill trainers when we changed that. It doesn't mean that when we made mistakes in the past, it justifies that we can make the same mistakes again
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Post by Ab Normaal on Apr 7, 2013 11:44:05 GMT 1
1. We can't, but we couldn't also with the teams who invested in multiskill trainers when we changed that. It doesn't mean that when we made mistakes in the past, it justifies that we can make the same mistakes again I know, but if you don't know who fired one, you'll never know. And you can't stop to evolute the game just because of this. If you csn recollect the data, then just give the teams their signing money back. Teams who now already have a YS can immediately fill the 5 extra train ing spots.
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Post by Mike on Apr 7, 2013 21:05:55 GMT 1
It's a problem that can't be solved. Just anounce now and implement beginning next season. Or halfway next season to give people al lot of time to adapt. But make a youthscout cheaper right away.
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Post by JoeLag on Apr 8, 2013 8:13:23 GMT 1
I'm one of those 2 Nos. Some remarks:
No. It's a devastating idea to implement such a change in the short term. It can't be effective next season. That would be very bad style for a managing game. Announce now. Change it for the 2nd next season. D'accord.
The poll isn't representive at all. Only about 2% of all managers participated at all.
If it is announced in time and the managers have time to adapt their managing I'm ok with the suggestion.
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Post by kurtinsc on Apr 8, 2013 14:02:21 GMT 1
I think the first step is to leave the cost alone and just change the pulls so they are just 18 and 19 year olds. That is a small enough change that it should be fine to do it for this upcoming season.
And I'm not convinced that alone isn't enough to make the cost of a youth scout acceptable.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Apr 8, 2013 15:43:23 GMT 1
I think the first step is to leave the cost alone and just change the pulls so they are just 18 and 19 year olds. That is a small enough change that it should be fine to do it for this upcoming season. And I'm not convinced that alone isn't enough to make the cost of a youth scout acceptable. You are right. It isn't. If you just change that and add another 5 extra trainingspots for own pulls, it would make things more attractive. Just these 2 changes for next season. And Joelag is against is, so I understand he says that this poll isn't representative, but then no poll is. Everybody had plenty of time to react.
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Post by kurtinsc on Apr 10, 2013 15:50:24 GMT 1
I think the first step is to leave the cost alone and just change the pulls so they are just 18 and 19 year olds. That is a small enough change that it should be fine to do it for this upcoming season. And I'm not convinced that alone isn't enough to make the cost of a youth scout acceptable. You are right. It isn't. If you just change that and add another 5 extra trainingspots for own pulls, it would make things more attractive. Just these 2 changes for next season. And Joelag is against is, so I understand he says that this poll isn't representative, but then no poll is. Everybody had plenty of time to react. Not a fan of the 5 extra training spots. If you did it, it would have to be for your own pulls only and with an age cap. Otherwise, everyone will just buy a 1/0/0 youthscout for the training spots. And putting those qualifiers in makes it a big change programatically, not a small one. Changing the age cap on pulls should be very small, both from a programming standpoint, and from an impact standpoint. But that one change may be enough.
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Post by Genomico on Apr 10, 2013 16:14:50 GMT 1
Yes, I the intention of this poll was indeed 5 training spots only for your own pulls.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Apr 10, 2013 22:05:44 GMT 1
You are right. It isn't. If you just change that and add another 5 extra trainingspots for own pulls, it would make things more attractive. Just these 2 changes for next season. And Joelag is against is, so I understand he says that this poll isn't representative, but then no poll is. Everybody had plenty of time to react. Not a fan of the 5 extra training spots. If you did it, it would have to be for your own pulls only and with an age cap. Otherwise, everyone will just buy a 1/0/0 youthscout for the training spots. And putting those qualifiers in makes it a big change programatically, not a small one. Changing the age cap on pulls should be very small, both from a programming standpoint, and from an impact standpoint. But that one change may be enough. Kurtinsc, if you read the first post of this topic, you'll see, that this is exactly what I proposed. Only for own pulls until they are 21. But changing only the age cap till a max of 19 won't be very stimulating for most teams to take a youthscout. I am convinced about that.
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Post by kurtinsc on Apr 10, 2013 22:52:54 GMT 1
Not a fan of the 5 extra training spots. If you did it, it would have to be for your own pulls only and with an age cap. Otherwise, everyone will just buy a 1/0/0 youthscout for the training spots. And putting those qualifiers in makes it a big change programatically, not a small one. Changing the age cap on pulls should be very small, both from a programming standpoint, and from an impact standpoint. But that one change may be enough. Kurtinsc, if you read the first post of this topic, you'll see, that this is exactly what I proposed. Only for own pulls until they are 21. But changing only the age cap till a max of 19 won't be very stimulating for most teams to take a youthscout. I am convinced about that. I know you suggested that... what I'm saying is making that change will likely not be trivial. I'd bet it's not possible to do that prior to the start of the next season... there's a lot of logic that would have to be added (to the training screen, the training simulation, as well as history to tell if you actually were the one who signed the rider to make the "your riders only" stuff work). While I'm not in favor of extra training in general with the youth scout, if the developers DID do it, they'd need to follow your suggestion... which means it would take some work to get done and not be out this season. Changing the max age of signees to 19 likely IS trivial. They should go ahead and do that. And while it may not make it interesting for teams to take a youthscout... it may make it profitable. And that's all that really needs to happen. If it's profitable (even just a little bit profitable) teams will do it. I don't think it should be more then a break-even or slight profit thing personally. It shouldn't be a requirement for teams who want to compete at the top level... but it should be an option. Right now it's too expensive to be a realistic option. Let's see if just making the max hit age 19 fixes that... or just make ALL of them 18 which might even work better.
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Post by champadero on Apr 11, 2013 14:07:47 GMT 1
First of all, despite i like the idea, I think the 5 extra training spots perhps is too much, and it could only help the better teams in the longterm, so...
What about having pulls in the youthscout from 17 to 19 years old, but starting at 0 skills.
Any new youth found has to spend 16 weeks in the youth team, where he can receive training in whatever skill manager wants (12/16 of skill point per training with Current Ability = 0, 14/16 or 1 skillpoint per training with CA = 20) (maximum possible skill level at youthscout = 6)
Having a youthscout would mean having a youthteam, where riders could only participate in U21 races. After those 16 weeks, the youth is promoted to main team where he can start to race with the big guys and still race U21 races if he still fits...
I think it would make the youthscout more interactive (being able to design your own youth pull primary skills) and a bit more interesting, opening posibilities for the game, and taking into account U21 races (nearly useless just now, if adding several U21 races through the season it could be really fun and at least cover big part of expenses)
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