krom999
U23 Developm. Team
lascia la strada e corri
Posts: 59
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Post by krom999 on Aug 1, 2007 11:55:19 GMT 1
Yes. I like it... good for me too!
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TtD
U23 Developm. Team
Posts: 63
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Post by TtD on Aug 1, 2007 12:06:23 GMT 1
Much better idea.
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Post by boucthesurvivor on Aug 1, 2007 12:27:29 GMT 1
We'll have a global and constant increase of the skills by 6, if I understand well... Should not be this increase balanced by the sum of all the skills of the coach? Because perfection is impossible to reach IRL, there is a ceiling of the human being abilities and progression that could be introduced with this feature...
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Post by Schizm on Aug 1, 2007 12:46:12 GMT 1
excellent idea ! but will this training have a price ? and will that be hard cash or will it be when the trainer is training he can not train his cyclists (or even both) ?
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Post by CableGuy on Aug 1, 2007 12:46:26 GMT 1
We'll have a global and constant increase of the skills by 6, if I understand well... Should not be this increase balanced by the sum of all the skills of the coach? Because perfection is impossible to reach IRL, there is a ceiling of the human being abilities and progression that could be introduced with this feature... Well, that increase is only a netto increase after 16 weeks of training, and each 17th week of (except first one), the total skill will be decreased by 10 again. On the other hand, one can now already hire a 7x20 coach and 3x20 scout (most take this last one) from scratch, so I don't think that perfection was impossible in PG before. And even if possible to reach, as it was like that already and will not change by this measure, it is still impossible to keep it for a long time ... and that's the new given now.
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Post by CableGuy on Aug 1, 2007 12:50:33 GMT 1
excellent idea ! but will this training have a price ? and will that be hard cash or will it be when the trainer is training he can not train his cyclists (or even both) ? Trainer trains when the cyclists are getting their massages or physio exercises (no trainer is needed for that), so ongoing training will not be jeopardized. The prize is still to be examined, but as I stated in the explanation already will be somewhere in between of the prize of hiring a coach like that from the start, and hiring the same coach from the start and replacing him after some seasons. In other words, training your coach should be more profitable than fireing your current one and hiring a new one, but it should be less profitable to hire an all-0 skilled one and train him than to hire an already operational one from the start.
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Post by Schizm on Aug 1, 2007 12:51:59 GMT 1
excellent idea ! but will this training have a price ? and will that be hard cash or will it be when the trainer is training he can not train his cyclists (or even both) ? The prize is still to be examined, but as I stated in the explanation already will be somewhere in between of the prize of hiring a coach like that from the start, and hiring the same coach from the start and replacing him after some seasons. In other words, training your coach should be more profitable than fireing your current one and hiring a new one, but it should be less profitable to hire an all-0 skilled one and train him than to hire an already operational one from the start. sorry must have read over it ...
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Post by CableGuy on Aug 1, 2007 12:52:40 GMT 1
No problem , I have to admit that you easily get lost in such a post.
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Post by stefkeswoon on Aug 1, 2007 12:59:58 GMT 1
1. Actually, I don't like the idea of skill drops for youth scouts. You can always carry on full training by having a double-skilled trainer. You might not be able to train your favorite skill for 10 weaks, considering this proposal, but you can still train the other skill at 100%. That's not the case with youth scouting: you need the three skills at the same time every week for maximum output. On top of that, youth scouting isn't really a job that desires much skill. So the in-game explanation of skill drops isn't that convincing in this case.
2. This system advantages 'big' teams a lot more than the other proposal. Rich teams have the money to continuously pay the wages of a double- or multiskilled trainer. And it's much more important to have such a trainer in this system, because you'll otherwise be forced for 10 weaks to train at less than 100%. In the previous proposal, having a mono-skilled trainer is all right: you can train that skill for 2 seasons and after the skill drop, you can ditch him and hire a new monoskilled trainer. And you don't loose any training power in the meanwhile. In the current proposal, your monoskilled trainer becomes handicapped after 1 season (instead of 2), which forces you to by a new trainer after one season if you want to train at full speed. On top of that, I assume that buying a new trainer every now and then will be more expensive than constantly training them. So after the training disadvantage there's alse a financial disadvantage for poor teams that are forced to cope with a monoskilled trainer.
3. Of course the idea itself of training your training is a wonderful idea. Cangratulations for it! However, I think the current proposal has got some errors, as I've explained above.
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Post by Pissboy on Aug 1, 2007 13:39:37 GMT 1
1. Actually, I don't like the idea of skill drops for youth scouts. You can always carry on full training by having a double-skilled trainer. You might not be able to train your favorite skill for 10 weaks, considering this proposal, but you can still train the other skill at 100%. That's not the case with youth scouting: you need the three skills at the same time every week for maximum output. On top of that, youth scouting isn't really a job that desires much skill. So the in-game explanation of skill drops isn't that convincing in this case. 2. This system advantages 'big' teams a lot more than the other proposal. Rich teams have the money to continuously pay the wages of a double- or multiskilled trainer. And it's much more important to have such a trainer in this system, because you'll otherwise be forced for 10 weaks to train at less than 100%. In the previous proposal, having a mono-skilled trainer is all right: you can train that skill for 2 seasons and after the skill drop, you can ditch him and hire a new monoskilled trainer. And you don't loose any training power in the meanwhile. In the current proposal, your monoskilled trainer becomes handicapped after 1 season (instead of 2), which forces you to by a new trainer after one season if you want to train at full speed. On top of that, I assume that buying a new trainer every now and then will be more expensive than constantly training them. So after the training disadvantage there's alse a financial disadvantage for poor teams that are forced to cope with a monoskilled trainer. 3. Of course the idea itself of training your training is a wonderful idea. Cangratulations for it! However, I think the current proposal has got some errors, as I've explained above. I do agree with stefke, wonderful idea, but i'm not sure it's that suitable for the youthscout. And is it truly much better for the rich teams this new proposal?
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Post by CableGuy on Aug 1, 2007 14:26:05 GMT 1
1. Actually, I don't like the idea of skill drops for youth scouts. You can always carry on full training by having a double-skilled trainer. You might not be able to train your favorite skill for 10 weaks, considering this proposal, but you can still train the other skill at 100%. That's not the case with youth scouting: you need the three skills at the same time every week for maximum output. On top of that, youth scouting isn't really a job that desires much skill. So the in-game explanation of skill drops isn't that convincing in this case. Youth scouting not a skill? Why are scouts so expensive then? Both in real life as in PG? On topic: well, with lowering the power from that youth scout, we aim in fact to break a littlebit this continuous flood of 'maximum output' cyclists for a while. Ánd with the implementation of TtT you even have the possibility to upgrade your scout if you have an inferior one. In the current proposal the 'stable' period is kept at 2 seasons, so no difference here. We will work out the economic part of this training system, off course and will make sure it is still affordable for starting teams too. By the way, the fact that the investment of an inferior coach by a starting team is upgradable, is already a good measure to give them some advantage, isn't it. I myself had to sack my first trainer after one week (0-3-7-0-0-0-4), giving me 280.000€ pure loss, which was almost all I had. On top of that, you can compensate the extra cost for the wage of a 2nd skill in preparation by not giving your coach a wage raise to increase his mood. Sometimes people who complain about high costs are the ones with scouts and coaches on delighted. ^^ But overall, I fail to see how this measure is giving more advantage to the rich teams than before. I think it is the contrary, but I'll await your feedback.
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Post by Il Padrino on Aug 1, 2007 14:36:32 GMT 1
Only thing that's still bothering me are the wages: when the trainer increases in a skill, it is possible that the total amount of skillpoints is higher than when the trainer was first bought (this would be the case when training the trainer during the first 2 seasons).
What will be done about the wages? Should they increase (automatically)?
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Post by CableGuy on Aug 1, 2007 14:40:22 GMT 1
Yes ...
This is written in the proposal:
The wage of your coach is always brought in line with his current abilities (and mood off course), so changing each week. Some weeks you overpay him, because you also pay for the at that moment not usable skills-in-preparation, but you avoid the cost involved with hiring a similar coach from day one. And in week 33, 49, ... you will see a remarkable wage drop too. It even allows you (by not training your 20-20-20-20-20-20-20 coach at all) to lower his ridiculously high wage.
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Post by stefkeswoon on Aug 1, 2007 15:40:34 GMT 1
Here I am again! 1. About the youth scout: I think scouting is so expensive because of the travelling costs and the time you have to put in it. You have to go and watch several races on different places in the world; you've got to meet the parents and entourage of the talented cyclists etc. The wage of the scout manages (in my view) these costs. No real knowledge involved that has to be updated, no training for scouts needed, no intellectual capacities necessary. That's the logical explanation why I don't feel the use of dropping the skills of a scout. Second reason: I think there are already a lot of teams that do not have a delighted youth scout anymore after the changes in their wages. It's really expensive now. Or am I wrong about this? I even think about firing the scout myself. 2. You can forget about the criticism on the training-the-trainer part. I had forgotten that a new trainer won't experience skill drops for two seasons, and that measure makes all my counter arguments vanish in mid-air!
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Post by sila on Aug 1, 2007 16:50:56 GMT 1
I have another idee not so complicated Lets forghet about the skill drop and take into consideration the drop of the mood. So i think that should work like this: Just an example... - after a year a good trainer (ex: 80 and more points skill)will have a lose on 1 step of mood at 1,2 weeks - a trainer not so goog (40- 80 points skill) will have a lose at 3,4 weeks - and one of 0-40 will have a lose a 5 weeks So if you want to keep the same trainer that will cost you some good money. Because you will have to pay him more money to recover his mode lose. And if not pay the mood will go down verry fast and may want to leave the club and the training will be almost inexistent. And this way at some wage level you will consider to buy a new trainer. Of course that example can be improve. What you are thinking about this!!!
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