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Post by Ab Normaal on Jan 19, 2013 0:04:35 GMT 1
So from now one we all train mountain? Everybody can follow on hill/flat/downhill, but if you don't have mountain you loose? The cyclist with 8 mountain should have let the peloton go on flat/hill parts and even if he could follow, he wasn't tired at all compared to the better cyclist? It's all mountain now, they can follow anywhere... Thats not true. In ESTANCIA GRANDE - MIRADOR DEL POTRERO my mountain riders with only 2/3 flat they loose contact with peloton in the flat section, and only 2 riders recover in the last mountain because they use extra effort. Same in 2:3. My mountain guy with huge sprint lost contact in the flat section too, which was unexpected. These discussions have been held before. The answer from nikeboy was that it also depends on the length of the part. if 50 km flat is in ten different sections of 5 km, then nobody will lose contact. If it is one section of 50 km, then the differences will be big. Today, it weren't long flat or hill parts in a row.
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xmike
U23 Developm. Team
Posts: 58
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Post by xmike on Jan 19, 2013 14:31:58 GMT 1
Mountain is overrated. that is clear. even "the mega ultra magnificent"(as media said) armstrong admitted.
I have a bug, when I click on the results it redirects me to the team homepage.
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Post by Quatannens on Jan 20, 2013 15:39:28 GMT 1
There also were no long mountainparts in the race I am talking about... Or is the 14km one long part? (This should be clearer... If it is so, it makes it a little bit more explainable, but still... There should be some fatigue thingy. Now a mountaincyclist will win if the race is 44% flat, 44% downhill, parts from every time 1km and finish just mountain? Because he won't loose contact if it are all small parts? A little bit strange for me )
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Post by kurtinsc on Jan 20, 2013 16:26:27 GMT 1
There also were no long mountainparts in the race I am talking about... Or is the 14km one long part? (This should be clearer... If it is so, it makes it a little bit more explainable, but still... There should be some fatigue thingy. Now a mountaincyclist will win if the race is 44% flat, 44% downhill, parts from every time 1km and finish just mountain? Because he won't loose contact if it are all small parts? A little bit strange for me ) While I understand that we may not want it to work that way for the game... I'm also not sure why this would be considered strange either. In reality, if you have a downhill/flat stage, fullowed by a finish on a mountain or short and steep hill... the winner is almost always a mountain/hill guy, not a flat our downhill guy. The only way the flat/downhill guy wins in real life is if he makes a move prior to the finish. Unless there is wind to create groups, cobbles or crashes... you pretty much NEVER see a pro-level road race where people are dropped from the peloton in the flats. I don't believe it's fair to say that ALL the riders in the pro peloton are at a level 4 or 5 on flat... surely some would be a 1-3 and would be dropped more often on the flats if it was reasonable for a fast moving peloton chasing down the break to drop lesser flat riders. In the case of the game, I might agree that it's better to suspend reality to some degree in order to have flat carry more value, but it should still be EASIER to follow in the flats and the hills... mainly because if I remember correctly, something like 60-70% of the terrain in races that were submitted IS flat. If it's just as easy to lose people on the flats as in the mountains, flat would be horribly overpowered. And I don't think I'm basing this on what benefits my team personally... I've got 17 riders at 5+ in flat, 12 riders at 5+ in hill and 26 at 5+ in mountain. I should be okay with whatever way the engine works.
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Post by joachim1107 on Jan 21, 2013 11:40:25 GMT 1
I also think mountain is overrated in this engine. You will see again in the result of paris-roubaix where a small mountain part will make all 'only' flat cyclist will loose contact. I think you should have at least 4-5 flat to follow easy on flat parts (depending on the number of helpers)
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Post by evild on Jan 21, 2013 14:30:30 GMT 1
I agree with Quatannens. How is it possible that riders with a low mountain skill lose that much time in such a small mountain zone, while the mountain riders lose nothing at all in the hill zones, against hill riders with a much higher skill, in a stage that contains 50% hills?
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Post by NikeBoy on Jan 21, 2013 14:43:19 GMT 1
As said before, these things have been tuned already, but IP need to upload it to the site (and he is still lacking time to do so)
Now, since in the mean time a lot has changed already in my version of the engine, I will upload the latest RE first to the funraces, so we can check first if things are better or worse.
Ofcourse first the problem with the funraces itself (no results visible) need to be fixed
I have asked him to look at that problem, because I don't know what is wrong here.
If this works, I can upload and finetune the RE myself ...
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Post by Quatannens on Jan 21, 2013 17:41:49 GMT 1
Nice, let's hope it will be done quickly
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Post by rarau on Jan 21, 2013 21:25:22 GMT 1
Also I have the same impression like Quatannens about cyclists with mountain.
Now in this game exist only 1 type of cyclist ....
10 mountain and 5 sprint, with him you won almost all races.
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Post by Genomico on Jan 21, 2013 21:46:41 GMT 1
Also I have the same impression like Quatannens about cyclists with mountain. Now in this game exist only 1 type of cyclist .... 10 mountain and 5 sprint, with him you won almost all races. Soon the better mountain cyclists will drop these mountainsprinters. So then it will be interesting again.
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Post by ElGringo on Jan 21, 2013 22:54:42 GMT 1
Also I have the same impression like Quatannens about cyclists with mountain. Now in this game exist only 1 type of cyclist .... 10 mountain and 5 sprint, with him you won almost all races. Soon the better mountain cyclists will drop these mountainsprinters. So then it will be interesting again. When the finetuning made by Nikeboy is implemented will help. The mountain rider are reaching skill 14 so already a big difference to the riders with skill 10 with sprint.
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Post by Quatannens on Jan 22, 2013 12:25:01 GMT 1
The better mountaincyclist will only drop those 10mo/5sprint cyclist if they are helpers... Imo they shouldn't be able to escape because they probably don't have a sufficient sprintskill to escape. At least their chances of escaping should be smaller than those 10/5 escaping. (Also, when those mountain/sprint cyclists are trained on mountain again, the difference on mountainskill only will become smaller due to the slower training on high levels...)
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Post by Genomico on Jan 23, 2013 13:29:01 GMT 1
How can a sprinter at 100% with 1.8-2.8-10.5 (F-H-M) loose contact while a helper at 70% with 1.2-2.2-10.8 stays in the first group? (both 95% fitness and equal weight)
So somehow the helper has an advantage.
Perhaps because a helper can counter an attackgroup while the sprinter stays in the original peloton??? Or does the helper has some secret bonusses from other teammates that the sprinter hasn't?
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Post by NikeBoy on Jan 23, 2013 13:49:35 GMT 1
How can a sprinter at 100% with 1.8-2.8-10.5 (F-H-M) loose contact while a helper at 70% with 1.2-2.2-10.8 stays in the first group? (both 95% fitness and equal weight) So somehow the helper has an advantage. Perhaps because a helper can counter an attackgroup while the sprinter stays in the original peloton??? Or does the helper has some secret bonusses from other teammates that the sprinter hasn't? There is no advantage for helper compared to sprinter in the peloton. Could you provide me the cyclist id, race id and the part were it happens ?
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Post by Genomico on Jan 23, 2013 13:54:38 GMT 1
Loconsole (id=7634) is the helper and Guimarães (id=2181) is the sprinter. At the big mountain Guimarães dropped out of the front group. www.peloton-game.net/results2.aspx?id=292&division_id=213&season=5Edit: After part 25 he is first and after part 26 he has dropped out of the peloton: "05:51:55 Guimarães can not follow the peloton". This is a few seconds before the mountainsprint.
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