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Post by Schizm on Nov 8, 2018 9:32:21 GMT 1
I watched 5 of todays funraces where I participated. Some things got my attention: - In the Pirineus U24 race some riders attack according to the report where they were not given instructions to attack - In the Pirineus U24 race there is mountain piece in the beginning which drops 90% of the peleton making the attackers the largest group in the race - In the open funrace 2 some riders increase there pace at an attacking point even when they are solo. Don't know if that was the intention? Some general ideas which are very preliminary because only a few races have been riden: - seems it is very difficult to win a race with attacking early. That might look more like a real race but could limit tactical options in peleton? - many times riders in the report canoot follow the peloton but still remain in the peloton in the next section - If a riders attacks and is captured by the peloton and then attacks again. Does he start again with his "empty tank" at 0%? One final thing which seems quite important to me. I appreciate all the new efforts being made and I don't mind if reports of funraces are not the best. But I am sure that many managers (especially the non-die-hard-ones) like this game especially for its current race engine where they can re-simulate the race and watch it with excitement. That makes this game stand out of the others and not just being a 'numbers game'. I only hope this doesn't worsen with the new engine where for example attacks from the same group are not grouped in the report. Most of your remarks are about the reports, nothing haas changed there and I am not planning on donung that soon. Like I said earlier that is low-priority for me (because for me it never worked properly anyway, not in the funraces and not in the competition). So you don't have to worry about the report-grouping it will stay like it was, until all more urgent issues are resolved. About your other remarks : - do not forget this is the funrace engine, (almost) everybody is on 100%, in the competition only stage hunters will be on 100 %, helpers and others will mostly be on 85% (one-day races) or 70% (tour stages). Which means it will be harder for the peloton to catch escapees. Like in real cycling early attacks can be succesfull if you can escape with a big enough group and stay in it until you are close enough to the finish. Ofcourse this might still need some tweaking but I am not going to base that on a peloton where everybody is at 100%. - The result of "empty tank" is that cyclist are on "save fitness" for the rest of the race, so no reset. If you have an example of someone attacking afterwards that would mean the changes I made did not have the full effect I searched for. Please share that example so I can investigate the problem and adress it for future races. |
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Post by pollyjean on Nov 10, 2018 12:37:56 GMT 1
- do not forget this is the funrace engine, (almost) everybody is on 100%, in the competition only stage hunters will be on 100 %, helpers and others will mostly be on 85% (one-day races) or 70% (tour stages). Ofcourse this might still need some tweaking but I am not going to base that on a peloton where everybody is at 100%. Ok, makes sense. - The result of "empty tank" is that cyclist are on "save fitness" for the rest of the race, so no reset. If you have an example of someone attacking afterwards that would mean the changes I made did not have the full effect I searched for. Please share that example so I can investigate the problem and adress it for future races. No, my question was a little different. Imagine an attacker riding alone in front for about 50 km and not fully reaching his empty tank? He is for example allready 50% on its way to reach empty tank. Then the rider is captured by the peleton and attacks again. Does he restart in this attack with all his abilities or does he start with 50% of his escape potential allready being used up? |
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Post by Schizm on Nov 10, 2018 14:03:48 GMT 1
- The result of "empty tank" is that cyclist are on "save fitness" for the rest of the race, so no reset. If you have an example of someone attacking afterwards that would mean the changes I made did not have the full effect I searched for. Please share that example so I can investigate the problem and adress it for future races. No, my question was a little different. Imagine an attacker riding alone in front for about 50 km and not fully reaching his empty tank? He is for example allready 50% on its way to reach empty tank. Then the rider is captured by the peleton and attacks again. Does he restart in this attack with all his abilities or does he start with 50% of his escape potential allready being used up? The distance in attack will stack, so no restart. What is more in the peloton, the fatigue is also a factor only less strong, so if he was close to a 100% after an attack, he even might reach the empty tank point while in the peloton. Interesting case would be ofcourse when the majority of all contestants attack at point one and are in one large group, because then that group becomes the peloton. |
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Post by Schizm on Nov 21, 2018 12:22:32 GMT 1
Changes in the fresh installed version of the funrace engine :
- The altered Mood/Form calculations of the Normal races now also apply to the ITT and TTT races (the R&D 8 ITT test race I made still has plenty of empty spots)
- Adjustments to Peloton gaining speed in the final parts.
- Lessened the importance of Sprint when attacking (the part where sprint is used for creating the gap stayed intact, only the influence of sprint on the general speed of the attacking cyclist is now smaller).
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Post by evild on Dec 2, 2018 13:39:40 GMT 1
I entered the fun races to hel testing schizm, let me know if you want me to do anything particular
For now i have difficulties to fully understand the mood/from part?
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Post by Schizm on Dec 2, 2018 21:00:21 GMT 1
Too compare the form influence you should have entered the first time (R&D 8, two weeks ago) everybody was on (funrace)form 4 back then. Now most will have different form.
Form and mood influence how well you do in races (it both adds a certain percentage to the skill). In the new funrace engine the percentage for mood became much lower while the influence of form gets much bigger.
Now the Form in the current race engine is based on how good your results were in the past races (which makes it in fact often a reinforcer for the best moods). So we made a new system in which every cyclist can reach his top form, the details are there for everybody to find out (after all that is part of the fun, and it aint that hard to figure out). The only tip I can give everyone is to closely follow the funrace form number (which can be found in the (Fun)race tactics screen, just hover over the cyclistnames on the right).
Next season it will ofcourse replace the current/average form completely.
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Post by heppie on Dec 2, 2018 22:35:15 GMT 1
So we made a new system in which every cyclist can reach his top form, the details are there for everybody to find out (after all that is part of the fun, and it aint that hard to figure out). The only tip I can give everyone is to closely follow the funrace form number (which can be found in the (Fun)race tactics screen, just hover over the cyclistnames on the right). Next season it will ofcourse replace the current/average form completely. Sounds interesting, but maybe this formula needs to be tuned a bit, cause now one of my youngsters has maximal form while finishing 4th last in the U21 race...
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Post by JoeLag on Dec 2, 2018 22:40:54 GMT 1
Form and mood influence how well you do in races (it both adds a certain percentage to the skill). In the new funrace engine the percentage for mood became much lower while the influence of form gets much bigger. I never liked the influence of form. This is so unrealistic! It would be a course of action to demote 1 or 2 times so you can boost your cyclists in form. But unfortunately you choose the course of non-disclosure. It would be quite better if we had a full disclosure of the race engine mechanics. As it is we do not have a clue if the influence of form now is 1 or 50%. |
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Post by Schizm on Dec 3, 2018 9:07:09 GMT 1
So we made a new system in which every cyclist can reach his top form, the details are there for everybody to find out (after all that is part of the fun, and it aint that hard to figure out). The only tip I can give everyone is to closely follow the funrace form number (which can be found in the (Fun)race tactics screen, just hover over the cyclistnames on the right). Next season it will ofcourse replace the current/average form completely. Sounds interesting, but maybe this formula needs to be tuned a bit, cause now one of my youngsters has maximal form while finishing 4th last in the U21 race...
The result of a regular race doesn't influence funraceform, that is exactly the system what I was trying to get rid of ! For me results follow good form not the other way around, but it is no miracle , if a cyclist isnt suited for a race or has bad luck (falls etc.) the results won't come either (he just will do better then when he is in bad shape). P.S. : what I forgot to mention is that the funrace form is the current form (so if the funrace was today he will start in top form). Form and mood influence how well you do in races (it both adds a certain percentage to the skill). In the new funrace engine the percentage for mood became much lower while the influence of form gets much bigger. I never liked the influence of form. This is so unrealistic! It would be a course of action to demote 1 or 2 times so you can boost your cyclists in form. But unfortunately you choose the course of non-disclosure. It would be quite better if we had a full disclosure of the race engine mechanics. As it is we do not have a clue if the influence of form now is 1 or 50%. Sorry to hear that, I think form in the new race engine adds a new dimension to the game. BTW ; I think the demote part is about mood not about form (mood : content, pleased, happy, ... : is kept as long as a cyclists stays with a team / form : the number between 0 and 10, changes every race and is reset every season). We had a discussion about what we should share about the new formula between the admins, and it was agreed that I wouldn't share anything about it (not even to them). But if other people disagree (and my collegeus don't mind) maybe we could have a poll about that ? |
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Post by JoeLag on Dec 3, 2018 15:32:24 GMT 1
I never liked the influence of form. This is so unrealistic! It would be a course of action to demote 1 or 2 times so you can boost your cyclists in form. But unfortunately you choose the course of non-disclosure. It would be quite better if we had a full disclosure of the race engine mechanics. As it is we do not have a clue if the influence of form now is 1 or 50%. Sorry to hear that, I think form in the new race engine adds a new dimension to the game. BTW ; I think the demote part is about mood not about form (mood : content, pleased, happy, ... : is kept as long as a cyclists stays with a team / form : the number between 0 and 10, changes every race and is reset every season). We had a discussion about what we should share about the new formula between the admins, and it was agreed that I wouldn't share anything about it (not even to them). But if other people disagree (and my collegeus don't mind) maybe we could have a poll about that ? Ah! You are right. I have to admit that I'm aware that form is reset each new season. Yes, so my rant targeted the mood - and therefore I'm glad that mood's influence is reduced in favor of form. Right direction! Well, about the disclosure policy ... I guess I ranted about this one already 3-4 years ago. Here's (some of) my arguments: Pro: - You can be more sure about the consequences when deciding on a long term training strategy.
- You will be more sure to find the right cyclist for a race profile.
- All managers will be able to point out loopholes in the formula (e.g. the mood/wage issue)
Cons: - Less reward for the managers that invest a lot of effort into researching the current game mechanics (but for me that isn't a con because I have a job and family and therefore of course don't have the time for it)
By the way, this is not a con: Managers can calculate a race beforehand. - This is nonsense because we do not know all skills of all cyclists that participate, nor do we know the tactics, in fact we sometimes don't even know which cyclists will participate. Apart from that we still have the fancy random parts with flat and falls. |
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Post by JoeLag on Dec 3, 2018 15:35:58 GMT 1
And by the way: Would there be a chance to display the form of a cyclist in the cyclists overview page?
As it is the only way I found to check it is by editing any tactic and hover over the cyclist's name on the right panel.
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Post by DeRodeLantaarn on Dec 3, 2018 18:55:04 GMT 1
The form number changes after each race.
Does that mean also during a tour or is the number the same during the tour?
Can my rider start with high form but lose it immediately in stage 2 by example?
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Post by Schizm on Dec 3, 2018 19:07:21 GMT 1
The form number changes after each race. Does that mean also during a tour or is the number the same during the tour? Can my rider start with high form but lose it immediately in stage 2 by example? No, it will vary, how much and in which direction depends on the cyclist, and/or on which point he enters. |
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Post by evild on Dec 4, 2018 17:16:30 GMT 1
so if I understand this correct, form will be the new mood? And we have to find out ourselves what the difference is in performance between a form 4 and a form 8 for example?
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Post by Poekie on Dec 4, 2018 17:34:46 GMT 1
so if I understand this correct, form will be the new mood? And we have to find out ourselves what the difference is in performance between a form 4 and a form 8 for example?
And if so, can someone give me a clue how?
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