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Post by Ab Normaal on Jan 22, 2014 12:48:57 GMT 1
In my opinion the calendar is great the way it is now. 5 stages without attackpoints is enough. The amount of timetrials is enough, there are a lot of flat stages, hill stages and mountain stages. Also a combination of everything.
You can win jerseys with all kind of riders. Only thing that could be added is a Downhill classic. The influence of downhill is minimun in this engine.
Apart from that I think there are races for everybody and everybody has a few races he hasn't got suitable riders for.
So, I am very satisfied with the calendar.
I do agree that all races end in succesfull attacks, but that is also the fault of us managers. We all do attack, so there is nobody to do the work and helpers are most of the time lesser riders than the attackers which mostly are the best suitable riders per team for that race.
What then should be changed is that the influence of the speed of the peloton should be much higher than a small group or a single rider, just like in real life.
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Post by goof on Jan 22, 2014 13:30:36 GMT 1
Related to the stages and kind of terrain, we alreay put more sprint stages 5 and if you pay attention the majority of stages reduces the number of attacking points, offcourse for this we need time and this gives work. Oa, thank for the hard work! It seems that you already countermeasured some points I was concerned about. But I find 5 races per season without attack points rather low. I think this could be easily increased to 10 imo. Maybe it is nice to leave just one attack point at the beginning of flat stages in tours. Just like irl, most attacks happen immediately at the start of a flat stage. But 5-10 km before the finish they are usually caught. Edit: does someone have any technical information about the option 'General Standings'?
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Post by Mike on Jan 22, 2014 13:33:13 GMT 1
that's youre opinion and ofcourse your opinion counts
my opinion is 5 stages is more than enough
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Post by whistler on Jan 22, 2014 14:06:45 GMT 1
In my opinion the calendar is great the way it is now. 5 stages without attackpoints is enough. The amount of timetrials is enough, there are a lot of flat stages, hill stages and mountain stages. Also a combination of everything. You can win jerseys with all kind of riders. Only thing that could be added is a Downhill classic. The influence of downhill is minimun in this engine. Apart from that I think there are races for everybody and everybody has a few races he hasn't got suitable riders for. So, I am very satisfied with the calendar. +1 I would prefer a slightly bigger role for the helpers - making it harder for the attackers to stay away or gain so much time, and also more variety in when the successful escape gets away (not almost always AP1/2). 2 possibilities for achieving this?: 1.) Tweaking of stage design to make length of race parts for early attack points quite short, and longer for later attack parts - so that later attacks will gain more time shortly after they are made. 2.) Tweaking the race engine:- For every 20km a rider rides in a group of <=5 riders whilst on an attack his fitness would be reduced by an additional 1% over and above the normal fitness loss for that day's effort. For every 20km a rider rides alone on an attack his fitness would be reduced by 2%. This would mean that attackers would lose a variable amount of fitness depending on how the race plays out. This would encourage more attacks to be later in stages (unless early terrain is very favourable) because a kamikaze long lone breakaway might lead to the rider being caught just before the end (as in real life) and/or needing an extra week's rest in between being raced - adding more tactical choices for managers to consider. [Edit] Also, the later in the race that attacks go away, the higher % of the race that helpers will influence...
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Post by chakra on Jan 23, 2014 9:31:19 GMT 1
I would say: The systems works now! Keep your hands off, or it might end in a new failure of the system during (several) weeks. We'll never be able to sim races like they happen in real life. Part of the game! Sometimes it turns out right (when you win) and sometimes it's dreadfull (when you lose)
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Post by stenes on Jan 23, 2014 9:50:40 GMT 1
I completely agree with both Ab Normal than Chakra!
The calendar has a perfect mix of races (add to max 5 races without orders, for a total of 10 in a season: 5 only flat, 2 only mountain, 2 hill, 1 dhill). The ITT and TTT are perfect as number!
if only it were possible to increase the number of races in order to run EVERY day! when you do not run like today is sad connect! running every day also increase the revenue for all, there would be more 'victories and more fun for everyone!!!
The engine now is STABLE! Change anything now would mean risking new problems and dropouts!!!
Each engine there will always be someone unhappy!
Now a new break for BUG is not really allowed!
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jan 23, 2014 10:50:25 GMT 1
I completely agree with both Ab Normal than Chakra! The calendar has a perfect mix of races ( add to max 5 races without orders, for a total of 10 in a season: 5 only flat, 2 only mountain, 2 hill, 1 dhill). The ITT and TTT are perfect as number! if only it were possible to increase the number of races in order to run EVERY day! when you do not run like today is sad connect! running every day also increase the revenue for all, there would be more 'victories and more fun for everyone!!!The engine now is STABLE! Change anything now would mean risking new problems and dropouts!!!
Each engine there will always be someone unhappy!
Now a new break for BUG is not really allowed!Now I have to agree with Stenes completely. We have to watch out Stenes. if this goes on, we become friends and that between an Italian and a Dutch man ... I think your fellow country men wouldn't like that!
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Post by goof on Jan 23, 2014 11:04:10 GMT 1
I would say: The systems works now! Keep your hands off, or it might end in a new failure of the system during (several) weeks. We'll never be able to sim races like they happen in real life. Part of the game! Sometimes it turns out right (when you win) and sometimes it's dreadfull (when you lose) I wouldn't change anything on the calendar either. I am only saying that the system is not perfect, because attacking is too advantageous. But I'm glad that El Gringo et al. already added some sprint stages. The calendar is very good, but the system is not balanced. I think we should think about how we can improve the system in a simple way. Besides, the tactics role of 'Gen. Standings' seems quite underdeveloped. There is no rush here though, but to say that 'we'll never be able to sim races like they happen in real life', so we do NOTHING and accept the current engine's minor flaws is not the right mentality.
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Post by stenes on Jan 23, 2014 11:21:30 GMT 1
I completely agree with both Ab Normal than Chakra! The calendar has a perfect mix of races ( add to max 5 races without orders, for a total of 10 in a season: 5 only flat, 2 only mountain, 2 hill, 1 dhill). The ITT and TTT are perfect as number! if only it were possible to increase the number of races in order to run EVERY day! when you do not run like today is sad connect! running every day also increase the revenue for all, there would be more 'victories and more fun for everyone!!!The engine now is STABLE! Change anything now would mean risking new problems and dropouts!!!
Each engine there will always be someone unhappy!
Now a new break for BUG is not really allowed!Now I have to agree with Stenes completely. We have to watch out Stenes. if this goes on, we become friends and that between an Italian and a Dutch man ... I think your fellow country men wouldn't like that! +1 p.s.- I am a friend to all without distinction it is logical that I'm rooting for the Italian friends... In 1,1 there is a healthy rivalry between Ita vs Dutch, but this is normal the important thing is not to overdo it with the manner and terms!
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jan 23, 2014 14:50:40 GMT 1
I think this rivalry is more from the Italians than the Dutch. I don't know the others quite well but Maxz is a really nice guy and he plays the game well. I don't have any trouble with it if he wins the division.
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Post by whistler on Jan 23, 2014 16:18:40 GMT 1
I would say: The systems works now! Keep your hands off, or it might end in a new failure of the system during (several) weeks. Well, I agree that stability of the system has to be the number 1 priority - then hopefully the number of managers can grow again. If in the future IP/Nikeboy/?? have more time to improve the game then any game engine changes don't have to cause problems when going live if they are tested long enough beforehand using fun races or with mirror database, races, and tactics, but I accept that this would be quite time-consuming to do. The time that the devs have for the game seems less than it was, at the moment, so I don't realistically expect or advocate any game changes other than bug fixes & maintenance until/unless that changes. I am enjoying the game as it is, I guess I feel there's no harm in keeping the suggestions coming for the future as part of being enthusiastic for the game
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Post by ElGringo on Jan 23, 2014 21:40:59 GMT 1
Edit: does someone have any technical information about the option 'General Standings'? The GC option works fine. For example in last stage "Pirineos" I use that option. I had one rider attacking and I wanted that my GC rider didn't lose time so I set a GC and a helper with great Mountain skill to ride my GC. In fact my GC only lost 4 min for the stage winner and won more then 4 min to the first group. When you use a GC the helpers stick to the GC rider if they have skills for that and increase the pace of that group, even if you have a rider attacking, this way the helper keeps working.
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Post by kurtinsc on Jan 24, 2014 5:19:50 GMT 1
The only thing I'd tweak right now (to see the impact before tweaking more) would be that the impact of attacking early should be greater.
Attackers should tire more then they do for staying away in a break. Attacking early should be the type of thing where you build a gap and then lose it as the stage progresses and you tire while the peloton stays fresh... even if the best helpers in the chase are riding at 70% with similar skill. I think at least 10 riders in a group should be needed to avoid this sort of tiring.
This would also open up a lot of strategic decisions for races. Let's say you have four big climbs each a quarter of the way through the route (with one big final climb). You'd have to make decisions of if you try early with a rider, save for the last climb and hope the gap has been closed enough to let you win, or attack at one of the middle climbs and hope the timing of it will mean your rider will be strong enough to distance opponents and won't tire early enough to lose whatever gap he builds.
I believe we have fatigue from riding in the attack already... but it's just too small to matter. I'm for upping that impact significantly and seeing how that works out.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jan 24, 2014 10:29:56 GMT 1
The only thing I'd tweak right now (to see the impact before tweaking more) would be that the impact of attacking early should be greater. Attackers should tire more then they do for staying away in a break. Attacking early should be the type of thing where you build a gap and then lose it as the stage progresses and you tire while the peloton stays fresh... even if the best helpers in the chase are riding at 70% with similar skill. I think at least 10 riders in a group should be needed to avoid this sort of tiring. This would also open up a lot of strategic decisions for races. Let's say you have four big climbs each a quarter of the way through the route (with one big final climb). You'd have to make decisions of if you try early with a rider, save for the last climb and hope the gap has been closed enough to let you win, or attack at one of the middle climbs and hope the timing of it will mean your rider will be strong enough to distance opponents and won't tire early enough to lose whatever gap he builds. I believe we have fatigue from riding in the attack already... but it's just too small to matter. I'm for upping that impact significantly and seeing how that works out. I agree completely, but I don't know a lot about programming and I have no clue if this is difficult to programm or not.
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Post by goof on Jan 24, 2014 12:35:35 GMT 1
I think that is a good idea, because it would involve a little more tactics in choosing the attack points. I primarily choose the attack points by terrain. As for flat stages in tours (not for one day stages and classics!), I would reduce the number of attackpoints to just one in the beginning. And there were also some plans for this season like rarau said in this topic, but I have no idea if these are implemented yet. I think now is the perfect time to express our thoughts on the engine, to see if the system should be made more balanced for next season .. or the season after that.
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