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Post by ElGringo on Dec 19, 2012 14:27:08 GMT 1
We went to the same thing...
I understand that "save fitness" is a weapon and we can take the risk of use it in all kind of stages but like is now its unreal.
I cannot accept that a rider with 10M saving fitness can reach the top of Angliru with riders with 10/12M that use 75% energy, thats the point.
For stages with medium difficulty I don't have problmes to accept that a rider with good skills and saving fitness can reach in the peloton.
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Post by Quatannens on Dec 19, 2012 15:52:41 GMT 1
Peloton was not made to be realistic, how hard a stage is in real life shouldn't matter in peloton. In a flat stage it should be just as hard to follow than in a heavy mountain stage. Otherwise we are going to a scenario where every yellow jersey is for the guy with mountain and TT (like real life) and you only can win sprints with flat cyclists. That change would be too big because all flattrainers/owners of flat cyclists will feel screwed
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Post by bj on Dec 19, 2012 18:41:55 GMT 1
Peloton was not made to be realistic, hmmm i doubt that. First of all it should be as realistic as possible otherwise people would get frustrated and leave and second of all with each change made the game is heading to more realism. Which is good. In the old engine this was the case, in the new it is definetly not anymore. And it is good again like that. To me it seems that we are already heading strongly into this direction. And again this is great. no the would not. Like you said, they will win flat stages and flat timetrials. We have already more mountain trainers then flat trainers. So the flat trainers have less competition on flat stages then the mountain trainers have in the mountains and thus win a higher percentage of the flat stages. As a matter of fact the market will solve this problem by itself. If you can win more with mountain then with flat more people will train mountain. When more people train mountain it will get more difficult to win mountain stages and thus it will balance out.
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Post by ElGringo on Dec 19, 2012 22:42:57 GMT 1
Another thing that should be tuned is the sprint when the final is hill and mountain.
I give todays stage has example, I won todays stage but I know that the rider in 2nd place has 7 hill and 4 sprint, my rider has more sprint and only 1 hill so he took advantage of the sprint skill.
This is a litle unfair and make sprint the must important skill for sprint when should be the combination with the terrain.
In conclusion what I want to say is that the sprint terrain type should have more impact in combination with sprint.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 19, 2012 22:50:50 GMT 1
Another thing that should be tuned is the sprint when the final is hill and mountain. I give todays stage has example, I won todays stage but I know that the rider in 2nd place has 7 hill and 4 sprint, my rider has more sprint and only 1 hill so he took advantage of the sprint skill. This is a litle unfair and make sprint the must important skill for sprint when should be the combination with the terrain. In conclusion what I want to say is that the sprint terrain type should have more impact in combination with sprint. This makes you a fair man. Not only complaining when it is in your disadvantage, but stick by your opinion even when you favoured of the rule, makes that you are really sincere in this. I think sprint should be always decisive when 2 riders go to the finish. But if both riders ride 100% on a hill finish. And one has 7 and the other has 1 on hill skill, and there isn't an attack point. How the hell can a 7 losen a 1 then?
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Post by Quatannens on Dec 20, 2012 19:17:46 GMT 1
bj: I totally disagree with you, every sentence you wrote. You actually want to make flat cyclists totally useless? Every stage with a mountain will be won by a mountaincyclist, every mountainjersey by a mountaincyclist, every jellow jersey by a mountain cyclist, even a lot of sprint jerseys by mountain cyclists because the intermediate sprints after a mountain will be won by mountan cyclists. Only perfect flat stages for flat cyclists? Peloton was not made to be realistic, no. Tours with mainly flat were won by flat cyclists, tours with mainly mountain by mountain cyclists. And that's the way it should stay imo. I think it's already bullshit that mountainriders can follow flat cyclists, but flat cyclists have to drop off immediatly when it's a little steep. If one day only mountain and TT are needed to win any tour, I'll probably quit playing. The same cyclists will keep winning every tour, boring! The great thing about peloton is, that it are not always the same cyclists who win. Just because of the variety in stages.
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Post by Genomico on Dec 20, 2012 22:11:43 GMT 1
My flat specialized cyclist won the Tour, and that should have been won by a mountain specialist
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Post by Quatannens on Dec 21, 2012 12:15:53 GMT 1
Why, the Tour was mainly flat, no?
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Post by Genomico on Dec 21, 2012 17:22:48 GMT 1
Why, the Tour was mainly flat, no? I don't think Cancellara will ever win the Tour (too bad though )
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Post by Quatannens on Dec 22, 2012 15:23:18 GMT 1
Ok, it's not realistic, but do you really want every tour being won by mountainspecialists? It would make flat really useless imo. And I guess your cyclists also has some mountain, something Cancellara hasn't as good skill ^^
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Post by bj on Dec 23, 2012 18:21:57 GMT 1
@quatennes: you did not understand what I mean or you take the wrong assumptions. I want a realistic engine. Who plays a cycling manager game. Most of the people are those who watch cyling in real life too. Those will be dissappointed when they join this game and they see this has nothing to do with reality. Thus it is really good that this game is heading to more realism with each change made. You actually want to make flat cyclists totally useless? Do you think the flat cyclist in real life are useless. Do you think Cancellera, Hushovd, Cippolini, Voigt, McEwen, Indurain, Voeckler etc. are all useless. I doubt that. I really love those and each one of them has certain races they can win and like this it is in peloton and it should be like that. Again i said i want realism. I have hardly ever seen a mountain cyclist win a sprint jersey, thus i dont want i to happen in peloton too. Funny thing is the opposite just happened. Before the changes, no matter what the best cyclist won the tours. In many division the same cyclist had won giro, tour and vuelta, but this season with a step to realism we have many different winners. Nice! The more realism the more different winners we will have. It is not anymore only flat or mountain. You need to have at least four good skills to win a big tour. You need Flat, Hill, Mountain and Timetrial to win it. And the importance of each skills differ from tour to tour. so each time you need a different skill set. And yes to realism it belongs that on most tours mountain and timetrial are more important then flat, hill, downhill and sprint. But these skills get importants on winning stages or winning the sprint jersey. If some skills have less importants then others, these are downhill, hill and timetrial. But the good thing about it hardly anybody trains it. So the one manager who has a trainer in these skills has the advantage to win the stages where those skills are needed a lot easier, because he will face less competition. If mountain is the most important skill in the game, everyone will focus on mountain, so it will be really hard to win mountain stages. Thus this will balance out and the flat trainers will win as much as the mountain trainers.
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Post by Quatannens on Dec 25, 2012 12:48:35 GMT 1
The problem is, in the old engine (where in my division never one cyclist won the 3 big Tours) flat cyclists could be cyclists for general standings. Now they are just going to be downgraded to cyclists who only can win a small amount of races. Like in real life, sprinters are nice cyclists, but believe me, they barely earn prize money. If I remember right, the yellow jersey got about 20 times as much prizemoney as the green jersey... We don't want that to be in peloton, right? I just want to keep a certain balance between the cyclists that are created now and those that going to be trained
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Post by Quatannens on Dec 25, 2012 13:30:24 GMT 1
Today a result in my division that without any doubt should be made impossible. A team got results 1-5 (ok, this is possible if the team really has better skills and finishes alone) but number 6 and 7 were from other teams. No way that in real life this would happen. Those cyclists should have a smaller chance to win because of their minority, but they will almost never end as the two last of their group. Certainly not if it's a flat sprint. I don't have checked the race report, but my cyclist with 10 flat wasn't in the group, so I think they just attacked all 5 together. This should not be possible, ever seen a whole team attack at once? This can't be that hard to implent I guess...
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Post by Genomico on Dec 27, 2012 13:29:35 GMT 1
Today a result in my division that without any doubt should be made impossible. A team got results 1-5 ... In the old race engine this was easier; now almost impossible.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 27, 2012 13:56:55 GMT 1
Today a result in my division that without any doubt should be made impossible. A team got results 1-5 ... In the old race engine this was easier; now almost impossible. I think only possible if you attack with 5 riders on the first attack point and nobody else attacks.
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