Retirement

[Poekie]

I think retirement can be improved. Currently it's like this:

"There is a chance each season change that your old riders will retire. For 36 year olds it’s 1/18, 37 yr:2/18, 38yr:4/18, 39yr :8/18, and 40yr:16/18."

The problem is that it is very frustrating if you have paid a lot of money for a 35 year old and you lose him just because of bad luck. I would say it should be a calculated risk, but not everyone might see it this way.

I suggest a different solution: riders retire at 40, but lose points more quickly than they currently do, especially leader points. And perhaps only at the season change to make it less complicated.

For example for leader points:

No gaining from age 35
At 36/37: Lose 1 point
At 38/39: Lose 2 points

And for primary stats:
36: For each ability (>0), 1/3 chance of losing a point.
37: For each ability (>0), 1/2 chance of losing a point.
38: For each ability (>0), 3/4 chance of losing a point.
39: Each ability (>0) loses a point.

Thoughts? Do you like the principal idea? Are the numbers ok?

[Slayer772004]

Actually, I don't really agree with your ideas, Poekie.


"There is a chance each season change that your old riders will retire. For 36 year olds it’s 1/18, 37 yr:2/18, 38yr:4/18, 39yr :8/18, and 40yr:16/18."

Thats ok for me. Every manager will have his own idea for this numbers, hard to find a formula everyone likes.
In my opinion, it may be much more aggressive: starting from 35 years, and higher chances to retire. Other will disagree on that, so thats and endless discussion.


"The problem is that it is very frustrating if you have paid a lot of money for a 35 year old and you lose him just because of bad luck. I would say it should be a calculated risk, but not everyone might see it this way."

Totally disagree. When you buy such an old rider, you should be stupid to pay a lot for him. You know he is end career, there is a chance he will retire, so thats searching for problems. The 'risk' is a part of this game.
When there is an 18 year old rider 210cm/110kg on the TL, you might think he is the new Puscasu and you pay 2M for him, just to find out later he has a negative FA on flat. Well, thats part of the game. You never know what will happen. Sometimes thats frustrating, sometimes its a nice surprise. Its a managment game, its searching how far you go with (calculated) risks.


I suggest a different solution: riders retire at 40, but lose points more quickly than they currently do, especially leader points. And perhaps only at the season change to make it less complicated.

I don't like that too. Some retire at 34, some at 42 ... just like real life.
And only at the season change: no way. Feeling every week the tension and hoping he won't lose skills, is more 'fun'. Just like weekly praying for no injury and be relieved all are fine. I like more the 'surprises' then everything is settled.


But again, its hard to find a line everyone like. 

[heppie]

I agree with Slayer. Everyone knows that there is a chance that old cyclist will retire. So you should keep that in mind when bidding on those cyclists. In my opinion the retirement probabilities may even be a bit higher. Currently, the chance that a cyclist is still active at 38 is 65% and at 39 36%. Compared to real life this is rather high.

[bosko]

Just to be sure:
For a 36y old, there's 1/18 chance he'll retire.
Is that at the end of the season he was 36y old?
Or at the moment he turns 36y old (so at the end of the season he was 35y old)?

In general I think the retirement rules are fair and clear.

[Ab Normaal]

I completely agree with Slayer and Heppie. I would like to see it even more drastically.
My oldest riders are now 32, very well trained, probably the best 32 yo of the game and they are still not able to compete with the well trained 36 yo of the game.
I spend already a fortune on their wages. So the retirement is something we should take a look at.
At this moment riders hardly gain points at 35. Maybe this should be 33.

Riders at 34 should not be able to train anymore (also not in fitnesss which immediately solves that problem) and lose skills from 34 instead of 36.
The retire process as it now is should start at 34 instead of 36 in my opinion. To make younger cyclists more cost effective. And that is not in my own favour. My squad is rather old compared to the other managers who rejuvenated. The older the cyclists are competitive, the better it will be for me in the next seasons.

And yes, everybody knows a cyclist can retire. If you choose to buy a 35 yo for a lot of money, then it is your risk, just like gambling on an FA like Slayer says.

[evild]

i also agree. We need to rethink the retirement procedure. I wrote about it somewhere else on the forum last season. On this moment cyclists are too good for a too long period. The game is now owned by 36-38y old cyclists. In combination with fitness training, simply unbeatable. I like the idea of cyclists being at their best on the age of 32-33 and then slowly decrease. The gap between buying/training youth and actually winning races or earning money with them is just too big IMO.

And if you really want to compare with real life and keep it realistic, sagan is 27, van avermaet 32. Don't see many 38y old ones on a bike, dont even mention winning.

[bosko]

Rebellin still rides his bike at 46. 
And Valverde even still wins important races at the age of 37.
But let's say those are exceptions...
Seems like most of the players agree about this.
Something that might be worked on for next season?

[Ab Normaal]

Dec 8, 2017 13:38:12 GMT 1 bosko said:

Rebellin still rides his bike at 46. 
And Valverde even still wins important races at the age of 37.
But let's say those are exceptions...
Seems like most of the players agree about this.
Something that might be worked on for next season?

That is difficult. We need to change the code for that, and on the other hand, it is the strategy of some teams, you should announce that in front and let it start in a few season so people have time to adapt.

It would be the same as saying that TT has way too much influence and change that next seasons.
Than all teams who trained a lot on TT aren't very happy.

It should be a long time strategy with a time frame to implement so everybody has time.

[bosko]

I agree. I was also seeing it at 1 step at a time.
I wouldn't change immediately the starting retirement age from 36 to 33.
But if you say today that from next season, the retirement ages and decrease skill ages go 1 down.
Isn't that time enough to take it in mind?
That would mean that a cyclist who is 34y old today can retire at the end of season 20 (almost 2 seasons from now) instead of season 21.
For a cyclist who is 35y old today, it would mean that at the end of season 20, he gets 2/18 chance of retiring instead of 1/18.

[evild]

Exceptions are necesarry for the game, they keep it fun. Im not saying all the 36y old need to retire from the game. You can have a good cyclist with a long carreer, just lower the amount.

ab im sure most of us agree with you and the long term vision, but we need to do something, no? Now its just a game of finding the big talents, train them and keep them until the age of 38... wouldnt it be awesome if suddenly a 26y old guy wins milan san remo? Or a 30y old mountain guy wins TdF? Create something that those guys at least got a chance, cause now that is 0,0%.
The first generation of cyclists is getting older and retires. Maybe now it is the right time to try some new things?

Just my thoughts:-)

[Genomico]

I agree with Poekie that the current retirement formula is way too random. Just remove all cyclists at 36 or 38y so everyone knows what's gonna happen. No frustration with managers anymore.

Evild's comment saying "wouldnt it be awesome if suddenly a 26y old guy wins milan san remo?" made me think about it. Yes, that would be awesome indeed!

So my opinion:
Training should go much faster at younger age (at least twice as fast). Optimum for cyclists could be around 28y. After that till 32y no decrease in skills, but no increase either. Cyclists between 26-32 years should be the best in the game. And a 26y old cylist should not be much less or better than a 32y old cyclist. So have a bigger range of optimum. After 32y skills drop fast. At 36 all cyclists retire.

This would mean much more cyclists are able to win a race. So more excited races, less predictable.

[Schizm]

Dec 7, 2017 12:18:05 GMT 1 Poekie said:

I think retirement can be improved. Currently it's like this:

"There is a chance each season change that your old riders will retire. For 36 year olds it’s 1/18, 37 yr:2/18, 38yr:4/18, 39yr :8/18, and 40yr:16/18."

I want to point out that the numbers were already altered (but not yet implemented it seems)

on his 36th birthday => 1/16 chance to retire
on his 37th birthday => 2/16 chance to retire
on his 38th birthday => 4/16 chance to retire
on his 39th birthday => 8/16 chance to retire
on his 40th birthday => 16/16 chance to retire*

I also just fixed a possible exploit where cyclists could escape retirement by being put on the transferlist.

Fact is today 12 cyclist aged 40+ are still active (38 others are in inactive or BOT teams - I will delete those manually later)
I would have liked to give you the actual figures about how many retired but it seems that some teams have already deleted the only way to trace those who retired on sunday.


* _{since "<" is used instead of "<=" it is technically still possible for a 40yo to keep racing}

[richardd]

I'd just like to say that I indeed took a risk of buying a 35yo rider with LS18 for a lot of money last season.
It just feels so broken when they then indeed hit the jackpot and retire at 1/16 or 1/18 chance...

I had two of my best riders retire last season, but I'm still going strong.
It's part of the game.

I don't think the rules for retirement need to change so drastically.
Soon enough all the oldies will actually be retired. And so what if one or two remain riders until they turn 41?
Statistically this won't be a big deal.

-R.