Manipulating & what isn't good for the future of game ??

[nicmarsh01]

A little while ago, game seems in crises and it does seem there's a fine line to the survival and future of this game. I have been playing for some time; I am not that successful as not an IT / data base type person or expert and not all that good at games. My time is limited. But I enjoy it and stick at it and try things out. BUT when mangers of teams start not competing to avoid promotion to a higher division I think we should be concerned. It's not good for future of the game that becomes a tactic. There a problem but can it be solved

[naspa]

I agree, however, it is already better than before.
Reason to stay low was to win more to get better mood/form.
That will be reset now every season (hope I understood correctly).
So the advantage of staying in a lower division is way less than it used to be.
Experience shows me that a low place in a higher division is financially comparable with a high place in a lower division.

[nicmarsh01]

my experience next season will confirm if you are correct or not, or if we are hearing only an opinion ! I hope you are correct, but we will see......

[bosko]

I agree with naspa about the fact that the mood change made it better. Indeed no need to "pump up" the mood of your cyclists anymore.

My personal experience on the financial part however is totally different.
But that depends on how you get your points.
For example:
Player 1 scores a lot of points by getting lots of finishes at position 3 to 5 and goes to a higher division.
In the higher division, position 3 to 5 will become rather position 5 to 10, which means hardly any prizemoney.
A bit more sponsoring and supporters won't make up for that.
Player 2 scores the same amount of points, but with fewer cyclists who actually win a lot.
In the higher division, it's possible that they still win races or make the podium or at least top 5.
So there will be prizemoney, which is higher than in the lower division.
Summurized: Player 1 might get in financial trouble by promoting, Player 2 might even earn more in the higher division than in the lower.

My personal experience: I am a player 1 type and almost go bankrupt every time I go to division 1. Last season I lost 3M (and I started the season with that amount on my bank account).
So you have to know your own team. If you have cyclists that win races easily (with minutes in front of the rest), than those cyclists will certainly win you points in a higher division too and there's no need to avoid promotion.
If you end high in your division, but only by getting average results with many cyclists, you might get a diificult season in a higher division.

[naspa]

bosko. Yes, seems logical. In my low 1:1 days, I still had a few riders who could do top5 and a rather strong u21 squad.

[JOOP Cycling Team]

The well-known see-saw that Bosko sits on.
There is a lot of understanding and you are not alone.
It's true that I did a lot of tricks to stay under the radar of div 1 and not promote.

It's actually about balance, I have a lot of mail contact with Naspa, he has an expensive team in terms of salary.
But with these riders he also does more than excellent.
It's his choice.

I knock out my best rider when I notice that he is not profitable.

Many managers have the level of riders who are not good enough to participate actively for the prizes.
That's why you have to sell them even if they can't keep up.

It's kind of bookkeeping and managers are married to their riders.

That's why I also sold Melodia and Kuzemchak as they clearly don't have the level (anymore) and have become too expensive.
They've won their GCs, done!
They are div 2 riders and not div 1.

My advice: play the game like a frugal accountant, but train your top talents well.
Find the balance between income and expenses.

It's not a simple game like Pro Cycling Manager.

I do think that I had to dig too much to find the right information.

How do you train a top talent, how do you approach the attack points, what consequences does a 15 trainer have in the long term..

I also plead more to share information as a new manager I didn't understand the game.
have to send thousands of emails to managers.
Sometimes they didn't know either and then I nagged until they answer.

Good luck, I'm always willing to give advice.

[JOOP Cycling Team]

For me it is a social game help each other and give advice.

Let's have fun together.

[nicmarsh01]

well there were 2 teams that should have finished in 2nd and 3rd, me in fourth, but because they didn't want to promote I was promoted, I tried changing my team to build for future and I could not survive. I have just 'lost' because of finances and now am out of the game. I was playing fro 5 or 6 years. I actually had played the game before thattime too with another team. so now I am out. well done to the others who don't play fairly . hooray, you did it !!

[nicmarsh01]

Dec 8, 2021 20:49:08 GMT 1 naspa said:

I agree, however, it is already better than before.
Reason to stay low was to win more to get better mood/form.
That will be reset now every season (hope I understood correctly).
So the advantage of staying in a lower division is way less than it used to be.
Experience shows me that a low place in a higher division is financially comparable with a high place in a lower division.

WRONG

[headcase]

It is sad to see you go nicmarsh01 . Hopefully you'll come back to the game with a new team. The problem you describe is part of a bigger problem. There is a big gap between 3rd and 2nd as well as between 2nd and 1st. Of the 8 teams that promoted last season from 3rd to 2nd only 2 can survive this season. The 4 teams that promoted from 2nd to 1st are currently ranked 9 to 12 in 1st division.

So yes, I can understand that teams don't want to promote. My finances currently as 10th of 2:1 are worse than my finances as 2nd of 3:4 last season. On a weekly basis I currently lose about 10k€. So in order to stay financially healthy one should stay out of relegation zone.

What a solution might be is that the number of 2nd divisions gets doubled, so we add a 2:3 and a 2:4. The quality will be spread out a bit and that might make the gap smaller. But we do need more managers playing this game. So once again nicmarsh01 I beg you to come back with a new team.

[JOOP Cycling Team]

Mar 27, 2022 22:27:08 GMT 1 nicmarsh01 said:

well there were 2 teams that should have finished in 2nd and 3rd, me in fourth, but because they didn't want to promote I was promoted, I tried changing my team to build for future and I could not survive. I have just 'lost' because of finances and now am out of the game. I was playing fro 5 or 6 years. I actually had played the game before thattime too with another team. so now I am out. well done to the others who don't play fairly . hooray, you did it !!

I think we've been in touch and I've given you very clear advice..

[nicmarsh01]

Mar 28, 2022 11:26:40 GMT 1 JOOP Cycling Team said:

Mar 27, 2022 22:27:08 GMT 1 nicmarsh01 said:

well there were 2 teams that should have finished in 2nd and 3rd, me in fourth, but because they didn't want to promote I was promoted, I tried changing my team to build for future and I could not survive. I have just 'lost' because of finances and now am out of the game. I was playing fro 5 or 6 years. I actually had played the game before thattime too with another team. so now I am out. well done to the others who don't play fairly . hooray, you did it !!

I think we've been in touch and I've given you very clear advice..

indeed. and I took your very generous and wise advice and have been building a young well trained team. The team was starting to take shape and look good for the future; but as it was, we could not generate enough money from races - no wins at all this season and just at this point in the season we have lost all. 

[nicmarsh01]

Mar 28, 2022 10:58:08 GMT 1 headcase said:

It is sad to see you go nicmarsh01 . Hopefully you'll come back to the game with a new team. The problem you describe is part of a bigger problem. There is a big gap between 3rd and 2nd as well as between 2nd and 1st. Of the 8 teams that promoted last season from 3rd to 2nd only 2 can survive this season. The 4 teams that promoted from 2nd to 1st are currently ranked 9 to 12 in 1st division.

So yes, I can understand that teams don't want to promote. My finances currently as 10th of 2:1 are worse than my finances as 2nd of 3:4 last season. On a weekly basis I currently lose about 10k€. So in order to stay financially healthy one should stay out of relegation zone.

What a solution might be is that the number of 2nd divisions gets doubled, so we add a 2:3 and a 2:4. The quality will be spread out a bit and that might make the gap smaller. But we do need more managers playing this game. So once again nicmarsh01 I beg you to come back with a new team.

thank you; I will see. I may return. I got some good advice but I still think the late in the season not promoting ( having swept up all the prize money along the way) is unfair. If you are a genuine second place team you have a better team to help survive and also you are probably have a bigger reserve financially. I had a decent reserve but its just run out. 

[quiller]

A solution MIGHT be to give an very very very high money bonus to the teams who promote (something like : enough to survive a very negative season in the division higher)

[Mike]

Mar 28, 2022 19:20:06 GMT 1 quiller said:

A solution MIGHT be to give an very very very high money bonus to the teams who promote (something like : enough to survive a very negative season in the division higher)

How many teams will be division hopping to get that bonus every two seasons?