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[24] 1:1
Oct 21, 2019 13:27:01 GMT 1
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 21, 2019 13:27:01 GMT 1
But is SLOODTS now for GC? 100% fitness, 11min gap IDEMOTO and 14min Mihnea. CAVACO seems to be too far. It wasn’t my plan in front. He rode the first 3 stages on save fitness and was still close after that three. So I decided to give him a small attack in stage 4 since Verstraeten was going to win stage 5 anyhow. And know he is in such a good position that he must go for GC.
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[24] 1:1
Oct 21, 2019 13:30:02 GMT 1
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 21, 2019 13:30:02 GMT 1
What? Sloodts 100% So he's doped with the fitness drug. He should be ashamed and his manager also!!! I HATE fitness trainers. I understand what you mean. But sloodts is 36 yo and then training him on other skills doesn’t make sense anymore since you can’t gain skills anymore. Training fitness is the only training you can give them. I haven’t done that much, but I can’t train him on anything else. Sorry.
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[24] 1:1
Oct 21, 2019 14:07:03 GMT 1
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Post by Mike on Oct 21, 2019 14:07:03 GMT 1
I know that. But it's my opinion that training fitness should never have been in the game. It's exactly the defenition of doping. What we don't want in real life eather.
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Post by pollyjean on Oct 21, 2019 14:20:27 GMT 1
Some things that might help: 3) It was a team time trial with Van Royen, Berghman, Ackaert + some other cyclists. This way, on every different terrain type, there's always someone else taking the lead in the group. Even then, if it is a team time trial, they take the average off all riders. Is that really the case in reality? It sometimes seems as if the strongest rider sets the pace on that specific terrain type like bosko says.
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[24] 1:1
Oct 21, 2019 14:43:17 GMT 1
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 21, 2019 14:43:17 GMT 1
Even then, if it is a team time trial, they take the average off all riders. Is that really the case in reality? It sometimes seems as if the strongest rider sets the pace on that specific terrain type like bosko says. No, if more attack, the average of the riders is taken. I have lost stages to that, when my GC guy was attacking and my stage hunter was negatively influenced by that.
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[24] 1:1
Oct 21, 2019 17:54:16 GMT 1
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Post by pollyjean on Oct 21, 2019 17:54:16 GMT 1
I don't mean in attacks because the duo-attack influence is quite known nowadays but also in normal, non-attacking parts?
Off course a normal terrain isn't like a real TTT. But it seems like for example a rider with flat 11 can't close the gap on a flat piece for example on 3 escapees having flat 13, 7 and 7 when all other variables would be similar?
Or am I talking nonsense?
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Post by bam on Oct 21, 2019 18:18:30 GMT 1
Can someone explain me how this engine works? In today's race, my rider Wawak, finishes 8th. His skills are 2-2-5-1-7-7. He was 100% fit before the race, rode on 100%, he was my only attacker today, so no duo attack bug and he finishes more than a minute behind 18 yo Van Royen. As an 18 yo, Van Royen cannot have more than 15 skillpoints, Wawak has 24, including 7 on sprint and TT. Wawak had only 1 flat, not more. How on earth is it possible that Van Royen finishes before Wawak? Anyone? Some things that might help: 1) A flat tire costed Wawak about half a minute around part 16. 2) The sprint skill wasn't very important in this race. Van Royen might even have SP 0 in theory. In a race with more attack points, Wawak would have surely scored better. 3) It was a team time trial with Van Royen, Berghman, Ackaert + some other cyclists. This way, on every different terrain type, there's always someone else taking the lead in the group. 4) At part 34 (MO 12%), you lose contact with Baijot, Van Royen, Berghman and Ackaert. At part 44 (MO 10%), you lose about half a minute on Baijot, Van Royen and Berghman. So I assume they must be very good in both MO (7?) and TT (7?). 5) How was Wawak's form? Even then, if it is a team time trial, they take the average off all riders. An 18 yo would reduce that average. Wawak is 21 and fully trained. Of course he had 1 flat, but he lost only half a minute of that. His form was 8,4 so not bad. To be honest, I know Keldermans is the best 21 rider, I did not expect Wawak to has a chance of winning, but lose more than 6 minutes.... I think it's caused by the difference in tactics. Van Royen, Berghman and Ackaert all were helper (only Verbist did attack for my team). And the mountain skill of all those 3 riders is higher than of Wawak, although TT skill is lower for all of them. But I think that it must be indeed the influence of riding with each other.
I agree that it's not just the best skill taken then, but some sort of average. It's quite easy to observe that in some races, where a rider in a third group first wins some seconds on the first group, but after reaching the second group they loose time on the first group. There are multiple examples of these situations, so it indeed can't be the best skill that's taken. But still, I think there is some group bonus, and maybe also a helper bonus (compared to attackers). I even think that also the current engine has some fatigue effects in it, which might explain that they could make up for the relatively large gap at the start and drop him at the mountain (while earlier in the stage they actually loose time on the mountains, albeit with a larger group there). And probably the influence of TT on mountains is not as high as we thought, such that the higher mountain skill of my riders made him drop at that mountain.
But still, it's strange. For me Van Royen was already a surprise, but what Berghman and Ackaert did surprised me even more. They only rode on 85%
By the way, did you look at the correct form? The 8.4 is mentioned as average form over the past races for him, but it's the funrace form (hidden for us, but you can see it when you hoover over your cyclists when setting your tactics) that counts. Because 8.4 doesn't seem a form that's reachable by the 9 form types, or I make some error there.
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Post by bam on Oct 21, 2019 18:41:12 GMT 1
What? Sloodts 100% So he's doped with the fitness drug. He should be ashamed and his manager also!!! I HATE fitness trainers. I know that. But it's my opinion that training fitness should never have been in the game. It's exactly the defenition of doping. What we don't want in real life eather. You may of course have your opinion, but I think you are a bit too harsh on the managers using fitness training. It's a choice that any manager can make in this game. Ab decides to pay approximately 50k a week to keep his trainer on level 15 on fitness, he keeps a training spot for a 36 year old (or at least he frees one when he needs it) and he accepts an additional decrease in the skills and an increased injury chance. Others, like myself, choose not to do so, but the consequence is that we have less fitness to spend. So I really don't see why anyone should be ashamed when training fitness. Training TT is also not forbidden, right?
And about the doping, I think this is really something different. The official definition from WADA is: "Doping is defined as the occurrence of one or more of the anti-doping rule violations set forth in Article 2.1 through Article 2.10 of the Code." Or using Wikipedia: "In competitive sports, doping is the use of banned athletic performance-enhancing drugs by athletic competitors." It are exactly those words "anti-doping rule violations" and "banned" that make fitness training legal. It's an option in the game, it's not prohibited or banned by any rule. So we may see it as ketones or so, maybe even as TUEs, but I think you should not blame the managers using it.
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[24] 1:1
Oct 21, 2019 20:18:42 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Mike on Oct 21, 2019 20:18:42 GMT 1
I'm still convinced that fitness training is not good for the game. It has a certain feel of unfairness, giving a racer an advantage he should'nt be able to have. I wish everyone would boycot it and not use it.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 22, 2019 10:41:14 GMT 1
bamForm of Wawak is 9. Also his mountain skill isnt exactly 5 but 5,8 (so almost 6) ANd that makes iet even harder to understand why a fully trained rider, 100% fit, 100% effort loses to two 85% riders and an 18 yo youngster. Mountain surely was the most important skill but by far not the only one. And with both sprint and TT skill on7, and almost 6 on mountain, good form and good mood, I stll absolutely cannot understand this. And thanks for understanding and defending my fitness choice. Indeed it is costing me 800k per season, for the 2 or 3 times I am using it. Fitness is the onlt thing you can train a 36 yo in.
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Post by Schizm on Oct 22, 2019 12:29:35 GMT 1
The 15% mountain parts (plus few AP) made that U21 race all about that mountain-skill. Do not forget that the base skill is the one where all other factors (weight, mood, form, TT, Sprint) add a % up to. I had a 10 (2 TT), a 9 (4 TT), a 8 (5 TT) and a 7 (7 TT) mountain-skill attacking at 100% on the first attackpoint (the 7 was my expected winner because his sprint and TT skills where much better; so he was the only one instructed to attack on the second attackpoint too). Already at the first AP , the 7 was behind the 8 and 9 (who stayed together for most of the race), the 10 was following a bit further. During the long middle section without attacks they all got together somewhere but at the mountain before the last attackpoint the 7 lost connection (unable to follow the pace set by the 10M); as a result he did not attack on the second AP because he was alone. At the end the 10M won with a small advantage on the 9, and the 8, the 7 became fourth about a minute later.
Fitness training : @mike you are like a footballtrainer who doesn't want to train on offside situations, because he thinks that rule should be discarded. And then gets mad when a goal gets disallowed because of it. Fitness training is part of the game, and is not any less realistic then other training choices (just think of it as : while others try to improve their climbing skill on a rest day, those cyclists are fully focused on recuperation) If something resembles doping in peloton , it is (or was) the mood benefit, point your arrows at that for a change.
I disagree that fitness is the only thing you can train a 36 yo old on, under 40 you still benefit from training skills, gains are marginal but at least you can slow down the regression of a skill (and I think at 36 you can even ammiliorate the skill slightly (if not to high)). edit : Ofcourse i do not disagree Fitness is the better choice at that age. Maybe we should consider to let training fitness be influenced by age as well !
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[24] 1:1
Oct 22, 2019 12:36:53 GMT 1
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 22, 2019 12:36:53 GMT 1
Schizm, very slowly then. At the beginning of the season, I had 35 yo with 5 on downhill, so not FA sensitive. I am training him all season on downhill and he still is 5 on downhill. That means more than10 trainings already for a skillraise which normally should take place in 6 weeks with a 15 trainer. So very, very slowly. I normally train Sloodts in other skills but he just lost 1 skill in every terrain, so he is high on the decimals. and the possibility of retirement is high at the end of the season.
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Post by Schizm on Oct 22, 2019 12:45:58 GMT 1
Indeed very slowly (just like the skill loss around the early +35 ages - the only reason why you see a skill drop more often is that people usualy train a skill til just after a pop, so most trained skills have low decimals, and ofcourse every skill gets a decrease and not just one)
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Post by Slayer772004 on Oct 22, 2019 13:30:24 GMT 1
Well that was a nice win of Duneau. Grabbed his moment.
Congrats, Eboese.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 22, 2019 13:41:22 GMT 1
Indeed very slowly (just like the skill loss around the early +35 ages - the only reason why you see a skill drop more often is that people usualy train a skill til just after a pop, so most trained skills have low decimals, and ofcourse every skill gets a decrease and not just one) I really thought I would hit 60 skillpoints this season with De Gryse but it's not going to happen. Do you think it is possible Schizm, 60 skillpoints?
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