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Post by ElGringo on Mar 6, 2019 20:55:51 GMT 1
Hi,
this week we made 2 stages:
1st with 4 helpers 70% and a rider at 100% - time of stage 06:14:04 - a rider with 24years won the stage - don't saw the tactics but watching the report we saw riders that escape early and made a good gap, Cavaco jump after and caught the front, they were in front till the last climb, Vanden Houte only jump in the last attacking point and took the stage, Ferreira also jump in the last sector I think and took 2nd, them came the peloton.
The majority of riders that were in front finish in the peloton.
2nd one was with free ride at 100% - time of stage 06:01:08 - in this stage the peloton rode at 100% so the escapes had less time gap, the riders that tried to jump in the attacking point 7 were caught before the last attacking point and use some energy, the rider that jump only in the last attacking poin was abble to keep the pace and won the stage, De Waen won with is combination of Mountain+Sprint.
For next week I already set a more pure climber stage, fell free to join and to make your comments below and speak about stage.
Bug found by Berdios - rider in save fitness can use 100% effort
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Post by Mike on Mar 6, 2019 21:01:34 GMT 1
I had Cavaco attack only the last 2 mountains.
First attack he got away (19 sec ahead) but fell back in peloton, I think that was on downhill (funny becaus he has more than average downhill)
Second attack het got away but at the finish all my helpers and others passed him. (pretty rediculas)
So I understand the makers of this engine that you cant escape to much because you'll get tired. But this is over the top, it's put to strict.
The only way Cavaco could have won is attack only in the last attack point.
So if you ask me, back to the drawing tables and fine tune backwords a bit.
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Post by Mike on Mar 6, 2019 21:04:01 GMT 1
I'm even pretty sure he would have won with no attack points at all. Seeing all helpers passed him.
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Post by rarau on Mar 6, 2019 21:58:35 GMT 1
Vanden Houte only jump in the last attacking point and took the stage, Ferreira also jump in the last sector I think and took 2nd, them came the peloton.
were caught before the last attacking point and use some energy, the rider that jump only in the last attacking poin was abble to keep the pace and won the stage, De Waen won with is combination of Mountain+Sprint.
for what we have LS on cyclists if we need only 2 points of LS ??
and with 4 helpers we need only 2+4=6 points of LS ??
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Post by heppie on Mar 6, 2019 21:59:50 GMT 1
I only participated in the first race. Vanden Houte indeed attacked only on the last point and I put the other four as helpers.
Note that there is still a bug regarding the helpers. In part 7 Vanden Houte falls and loses contact with the peloton. The helpers don't wait for him and stay in the peloton.
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Post by ElGringo on Mar 6, 2019 22:05:08 GMT 1
Note that there is still a bug regarding the helpers. In part 7 Vanden Houte falls and loses contact with the peloton. The helpers don't wait for him and stay in the peloton. Thanks for report, I already detected that in others fun races. |
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Post by heppie on Mar 6, 2019 22:07:14 GMT 1
Vanden Houte only jump in the last attacking point and took the stage, Ferreira also jump in the last sector I think and took 2nd, them came the peloton.
were caught before the last attacking point and use some energy, the rider that jump only in the last attacking poin was abble to keep the pace and won the stage, De Waen won with is combination of Mountain+Sprint.for what we have LS on cyclists if we need only 2 points of LS ?? and with 4 helpers we need only 2+4=6 points of LS ??
In some other funraces tests (other stage profiles) it was not the best tactics to wait for the last point to attack. Also, if this stage was part of a tour, then you probably put some of your cyclists at save fitness which would require more LS as well.
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Post by ElGringo on Mar 6, 2019 22:10:20 GMT 1
[quote author=" rarau" for what we have LS on cyclists if we need only 2 points of LS ?? and with 4 helpers we need only 2+4=6 points of LS ??[/quote] Rarau, in a stage there are different objectives, like in real life the majority of stages dont end with escapes, so why they attack? For mountain points or sprint points and if the peloton dont follow they fight for stage. |
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Post by Ab Normaal on Mar 7, 2019 9:14:43 GMT 1
El Gringo: true, but Rarau has a point.
Only attacking at the last point kills the importance of having a good leader.
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Post by bosko on Mar 7, 2019 11:31:55 GMT 1
About the LS:
To me, it seems you don't need much skill points in single races, because there always will be plenty of helpers.
However in the tours:
1) there will be a lot less helpers (and certainly not at 100%)
2) like heppie says, you will use "save fitness" for some guys, maybe one for GC, one for race, one for YC.
The peloton will have a lower pace (few helpers + most cylists at lower fitness or effort), making escapes succesfull again, so higher LS will be handy there.
So you can use your best leader in tours and a younger one for single races (so his LS can grow to become a "tourleader" later on).
About Mikes remarks (about Cavaco):
I don't think you will get the same results next season.
1) Everyone at 100%
It can be viewed as a "single race demo", but it's not 100% realistic.
In the funrace, every team can select his best 5 mountain cyclists, in real season they will be divided on different races.
Also 4 helpers at 100% doesn't seem realistic (you would need a lot of cyclists if you want to do that every single race).
So the peloton speed is higher than it will be next season.
I'm sure Cavaco will win if he attacks only the last 2 mountains.
Maybe do a rerun next week with only 1 or 2 (less strong) helpers per team?
2) 4 helpers at 70%
It can be viewed as a "tour race demo", but it's not 100% realistic.
In the funrace, everyone selects 4 helpers, in tour race probably only 1.
In the funrace, everyone starts at 100% fitness, in a tour race, thats only the case at stage 1.
So again, the peloton will be less strong than you think right now.
I think Cavaco would have won this funrace already if he attacked only the 2 latest mountains.
Maybe do a rerun next week with your best mountain cyclist attacking at AP 7 and 8?
Or even at AP 4?
What if we evaluate the new engine in the middle of next season (so we can see the bigger part, not the results of 1 race), so small adaptions can be made for the season afterwards?
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Post by Slayer772004 on Mar 7, 2019 12:10:37 GMT 1
One personal remark from my side:
- will the new engine be more realistic: yes
- will the new engine be more fun: I have my doubts
Even its not realistic the early attacker always wins, it creates tension.
This week we had the GP Ouest France. My attacker takes 30 seconds on the mountain, but loses every time 5 seconds in the descent, 5 seconds on the hill part, 5 seconds on the descent, 5 seconds on the flat ... until he takes again 30 seconds on the mountain. The whole race long, I was on the edge of my seat, hoping my rider could make till the finish. 220km of tension.
With the new engine, (I think) for 230km nothing would happen - except an early attacker who commits suicide, my opponent would have attacked on 15km (maybe 40km) before the finish and that was it. One attack and close your books. Max 40km of tension, if you can call it tension.
During this season, in 2:2 we had much more epic battles like this.
Im afraid with the new engine, this won't be the case anymore.
Its something to take on board when considering to introduce the new engine.
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Post by Poekie on Mar 7, 2019 12:51:19 GMT 1
Agree that not realism but fun should be the main goal. It's ok to give late attacks more chance then they have now, but it should not be the default tactics to win.
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Post by tossboom on Mar 7, 2019 12:58:56 GMT 1
The way the funrace engine works right now is no fun at all. So definitely fun before realistic racing. If nothing changes in the new engine, I will be one of the first to leave this game.
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Post by ElGringo on Mar 7, 2019 13:25:01 GMT 1
The way the funrace engine works right now is no fun at all. So definitely fun before realistic racing. If nothing changes in the new engine, I will be one of the first to leave this game. We are trying to do our best and to work out a good new engine, off course the players opinion maters but I didn't like what you said and I think you should erase that last sentence because you are influenciating other managers with that negative opinion. We already decided during the weekend that we will keep the current engine for another season at least and try to finetune the new race engine. One of the staff had a personal situation thats why we still dind't make a real announcement, but will be made before the end of season. |
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Post by Mike on Mar 7, 2019 13:27:14 GMT 1
If I speak for myself. I would rather change nothing exept:
1. Take importance of mood way down low.
2. Contracts: let cyclists ask realistic wages in stead of half a mio per week or something like that
That's all that needs changing FAST, the rest I like very much in the engin of this moment.
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Melres United
