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Post by wheelnut on Apr 16, 2018 17:40:37 GMT 1
I wanted to make a few suggestions to further improve the game after great recent work to help tweak a few bugs and slants on the game.
I play Battirck and Hattrick and although they are different simulations as they are 'team' sports games i think we can learn from them.
One particular problem as I perceive it is that riders do not reach full potential until 33 - 36 years old. This comes to pass because training has a good payback for them right up to this age. HT and BT have effective training only up to around 23 - 24 with pops falling off rapidly after this. This means that they have a longer career at full potential i.e. 23 to 33 when skills start to trail off rapidly i.e. drops. This contrasts with Peleton where a rider maybe only effective from around 31 or 32 until 36 or 37, a very short career. This causes buying 'vintage' riders as very effective so some teams only have riders over 33 years old! not like real life cycling at all. This is a hard tactic to counter if you try and build a side from 18 year olds all the way through until 37.
A riders career is rather odd. A bit of money/fame at U21. Some minor usefulness up to 25 in the white jersey comp but after this from 26 to 31 - 34 complete wilderness until their skills are high enough to compete with those fully developed old men!
Both BT and HT favour youth training to such an extent the most successful managers tend to always train and keep youth scouts. Peleton is the reverse with only the minority having youth scouts as on balance not profitable and not a winning tactic. The TL gets flooded with system generated youth pulls too.
Money is difficult in Peleton with the winner takes all mentality a real problem. IN BT and HT the 'gate' is important so even losing still gets you money. Of course over time through fans gates only increase with success and promotion. This is difficult to replicate but I think money is too big for winning races and not enough for sponsors or participation. In my division one team is winning everything, taking all the money and points and therefore can invest in even better riders completing the monopoly, hard to break down. This has happened to three straight years in my division.
Last observation, in BT and HT there is several ways to play the game, such as home grown teams, balanced sides, a few superstars with journeymen, etc. In Peleton it is hard to compete or even survive outside the consensus tactics. This destroys enjoyment for those wanting to try something different or play the game in a different way.
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Post by rarau on Apr 16, 2018 19:52:03 GMT 1
IN BT and HT the 'gate' is important so even losing still gets you money. Of course over time through fans gates only increase with success and promotion. This is difficult to replicate but I think money is too big for winning races and not enough for sponsors or participation. In my division one team is winning everything, taking all the money and points and therefore can invest in even better riders completing the monopoly, hard to break down.
this i said in the past too and was some modifications, now sponsor is much better then in 3 seasons ago
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Post by Mike on Apr 24, 2018 20:09:50 GMT 1
sponsor is not much better, it's slightly better and should be 10x the sum that is payed at the moment
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Post by Poekie on Apr 25, 2018 12:06:46 GMT 1
How would you prevent inflation, Mike?
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Post by wheelnut on May 2, 2018 18:01:52 GMT 1
yep if sponsorship was more and prize money less there would be less buying of 35 - 37 year olds for quick cash
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Post by Stinus1986 on Jul 31, 2018 9:10:27 GMT 1
Money is difficult in Peleton with the winner takes all mentality a real problem. IN BT and HT the 'gate' is important so even losing still gets you money. Of course over time through fans gates only increase with success and promotion. This is difficult to replicate but I think money is too big for winning races and not enough for sponsors or participation. In my division one team is winning everything, taking all the money and points and therefore can invest in even better riders completing the monopoly, hard to break down. This has happened to three straight years in my division. I totally agree with you. The prize money compared to the sponsorship is completely unrealistic. For reference, I made a total of 17M in prizemoney last season, compared to 830k in sponsorship. And this is without counting in the profit from merchandise. It is no wonder a lot of teams are preferring to stay in easier division and do not want to promote. Doubling the sponsorship and halving the prizemoney will be a good start.
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Post by wheelnut on Aug 1, 2018 6:01:25 GMT 1
well said....good luck in the new division
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Post by Mike on Aug 12, 2018 20:34:01 GMT 1
You should be able to survive with sponsor money and everything you get winning races should be extra for new riders etc.
But in this game it is not so, sadly enough
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Post by Poekie on Aug 12, 2018 22:07:27 GMT 1
A lot of inflation is not a good thing for games imo.
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Post by Schizm on Aug 13, 2018 10:19:10 GMT 1
in the real world continental teams (third tier in cycling) can not afford potential TDF winners, top sprinters or super prospects because they would have a Vastgoedservice or Jelly Belly sponsor instead of Sky or Quickstep !
Not to mention quantity and quality of the Staff !
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Post by Ab Normaal on Aug 13, 2018 14:13:06 GMT 1
We have talked about the financial part in the game to see if we need to change something. A few seasons ago all managers got an extra $ 500.000. But a lot of managers only spent it on transfers. If we provide people with more sponsor money or other extra income, it will be spend on transfers for the teams who need the money.
This is a managers game. One of the aspects of it is keeping your finances healthy. The people who have difficulty with that have proven to spend all extra money and still have the same balance on their bank.
So providing more money is absolutely no solution. Managers will have to make a choice between salaries of the riders, trainer, a youthscout and buying riders on the transfermarket.
No adjustments will be made regarding sponsor or prize money or the amount of supporters, managers will have to look at their costs. You don't need 40 riders. If you still want them, that's up to you but it means there are things you can't. Same is for the YS and trainer.
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Post by vazilii on Aug 13, 2018 20:19:05 GMT 1
I can go with Ab on this Although I feel the YS is not really worth the money up till now. Will keep it going for this season to evaluate
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Post by Stinus1986 on Aug 14, 2018 8:54:58 GMT 1
As a division 2 team I have only 65k sponsor money per week. So what would this amount get me? Maybe a mono skill trainer of level 15? At the moment my cyclists and staff cost me over 600k, so almost 10 times my sponsor money. My trainer is pretty good with 3 high skills, but I do not have cyclist with crazy high salary and no YS. Luckily my price money is high enough to survive. But what will happen if I don’t get good results anymore? I notice it with other teams, they promote to a higher division, get no results and then have to sell most of their cyclist and start all over.
I agree there is no need for extra money, but just redistribute the available sponsor and price money. Double or triple the sponsor money and lower the price money with an equal amount.
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Post by ElGringo on Aug 14, 2018 14:01:42 GMT 1
As a division 2 team I have only 65k sponsor money per week. So what would this amount get me? Maybe a mono skill trainer of level 15? At the moment my cyclists and staff cost me over 600k, so almost 10 times my sponsor money. My trainer is pretty good with 3 high skills, but I do not have cyclist with crazy high salary and no YS. Luckily my price money is high enough to survive. But what will happen if I don’t get good results anymore? I notice it with other teams, they promote to a higher division, get no results and then have to sell most of their cyclist and start all over. I agree there is no need for extra money, but just redistribute the available sponsor and price money. Double or triple the sponsor money and lower the price money with an equal amount. I agree with what you say and you touch a very good point, when good teams promote and after that they struggle to win and make money and that make sell riders, if they are good the teams in div 1 with results and money buy them and become even more stronger, thats why we see this difference between teams, if a new one wants to compete or have a lot of money and can create his on team like we saw EGV or they never get there. Alright teams need to adjust to the division and play in that way but if they cannot have a good trainer whats the propose of playing? A team with a trainer with skill 15 could never compete to a team with trainer with skill 20, in 3/4 seasons the rider of the 20skill trainer will have more 4/5 total skills points so when will the team with the 15 trainer have the possibility to play fairly agains the better one? The game should have the financial situation that a new team can afford a multiskill trainer that can have at least 2 skills at 17/18 and another at 15, so the sponsor money should cover that week costs with a value of 250k that's what I'm figthing for. This way teams will not have afraid to promote and can fight to be a better team. This is a vicious cycle and the teams that profit with it are always the same. I'm in favour of increase the sponsor money to a value that helps manager to grow and fight for better results but I'm only one.
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Post by rarau on Aug 14, 2018 20:00:32 GMT 1
but if they cannot have a good trainer whats the propose of playing? A team with a trainer with skill 15 could never compete to a team with trainer with skill 20, in 3/4 seasons the rider of the 20skill trainer will have more 4/5 total skills points so when will the team with the 15 trainer have the possibility to play fairly agains the better one? The game should have the financial situation that a new team can afford a multiskill trainer that can have at least 2 skills at 17/18 and another at 15, so the sponsor money should cover that week costs with a value of 250k that's what I'm figthing for. This way teams will not have afraid to promote and can fight to be a better team. This is a vicious cycle and the teams that profit with it are always the same. I'm in favour of increase the sponsor money to a value that helps manager to grow and fight for better results but I'm only one. you are not alone
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