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Post by joachim1107 on Jan 29, 2018 9:03:14 GMT 1
I have a serious mid season dip. Low points and also 2 injured in the TDF. OH crap, will go better next season in division2
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Post by bam on Jan 29, 2018 11:03:12 GMT 1
I also didn't expect the prices to go this high, or at least not for all of them. But actually, when you ( eboese ) started bidding, I thought you would go all the way and buy most of them. I was really surprised by the fact that you didn't buy the leader. It is hard to compete with good riders, but a bad leader. Although I do agree that he was a very average cyclist, and that 7M may be too much, but training your own leader takes a lot of time as well. But maybe I am over estimating your finances, and it was also not possible (or at least not very wise) to invest 50M in a new generation? You're probably not overestimating them... But 50m for all them? I didn't feel that was wise (heck, even these 3 wasn't wise from a financial point of view, I'm not going to earn that back on them). Let's be honest, a lot of them were decent riders, but probably not good enough to structurally win races in 1.1. I'm not spending all of my money on a team that I feel won't win the league. And with that in mind, would it have been a good investment to buy a 13LS leader for more than 7m to support only 3 or 4 riders? Yes, I agree that it wouldn't have been wise to buy all of them. And I also agree that not all of them were good enough to structurally win races in 1.1 (especially not when Ab is coming with his large selection). But that leader won't have been an investment solely for supporting those 3 or 4 riders, but also for supporting your older riders if (and that's uncertain, I know) Guth retires next season. 7M was way too expensive in my opinion, so I can understand that you let him go, it's just that I didn't expect it
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Post by bam on Jan 29, 2018 11:06:00 GMT 1
Who will win France? Like i see now i see that Vylder , Stelian from Op or Trifu (if is played for GS) have main chances. Not to forget Joanteam cyclists who play all in (fitness all the way, all weeks) this season. I put all my bets on my mountain goat Zeffiretti who is now on place 41 to finish in top 10 He is after 3 races near youngsters time Easy France for me , 1 attacker every day, 2 on save fitness and my captain helper The easiest tactics from all GS i ever play in 12 years of peloton. I m a little disapointed that i dont have a youngster in France this is the only jersey i could win on div 1.1 but i play all in for first race (sprint) race of France. Vansteeger already win it Both De Vylder and Stellian will not win the yellow jersey. As always, I play for stages only. With Vansteeger as an exception, I hope he can pick up the youth jersey while being leader. And it's looking good, with a 20 minute advantage. On the other hand, he will ride Austria as well this week, so he will loose a bit more fitness than the other competitors, which may give them an advantage in the last week.
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Post by eboese on Jan 29, 2018 12:43:14 GMT 1
You're probably not overestimating them... But 50m for all them? I didn't feel that was wise (heck, even these 3 wasn't wise from a financial point of view, I'm not going to earn that back on them). Let's be honest, a lot of them were decent riders, but probably not good enough to structurally win races in 1.1. I'm not spending all of my money on a team that I feel won't win the league. And with that in mind, would it have been a good investment to buy a 13LS leader for more than 7m to support only 3 or 4 riders? Yes, I agree that it wouldn't have been wise to buy all of them. And I also agree that not all of them were good enough to structurally win races in 1.1 (especially not when Ab is coming with his large selection). But that leader won't have been an investment solely for supporting those 3 or 4 riders, but also for supporting your older riders if (and that's uncertain, I know) Guth retires next season. 7M was way too expensive in my opinion, so I can understand that you let him go, it's just that I didn't expect it Yeah, I can understand that, and it makes 2 of us . There were 4 riders that I had highlighted for myself, the 3 riders I bought and the leader. I didn't expect we would go to these heights for him though. If he had any decent skills apart from LS I would have gone higher, but also taking the other items in consideration this was as high as was willing to go for this guy. Guth is definitely a risk, I hope he will be at the good end of the retirement draw at the end of this season. If not, I will have an issue and might get rid of all my oldies. My team is really on it's last legs now anyway. I can see my 37 year olds quickly getting worse and it's only a matter of time before the new guys will be able to beat them.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jan 29, 2018 13:56:52 GMT 1
Why don't you, as soon as the title is yours, put up a younger cyclist as leader? In a few seasons wou wll have an acceptable leader.
I can compare the riders from Towerriders with my own riders (and I think BAM and Heppie can do too) and I can tell you that they are quit good. They are not far from my riders so you bought very decent riders. You are right that it are 'only' 3 riders, where I have 24 of these riders, also selected on height/weight combination and all with good steering/balance. But for the competition it is healthy that more teams will get new good riders. Your oldies cannot compete anymore in 2 seasons, so then it is to the new generation. Really curious about the competition agains Heppie and BAM's riders!
Hope to be there in season 21.
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Post by evild on Jan 29, 2018 21:07:06 GMT 1
Like i said, not 100% top, but close to it. And thats what made the price i guess. We dont see those kind of cyclists every week. I am curious to watch your next step now eboese
rarau. You know the problem in your squad, but you dont solve it? You still have 52 cyclists, and you still dont focus on sprint and tt?
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Post by heppie on Jan 29, 2018 22:42:11 GMT 1
Interesting discussion. I think I agree with most things said. Decent sprint and TT is a must for every cyclist. On the other hand, I focussed sometimes maybe too much on it and didn't utilize the FA enough. I'm still searching for the perfect balance , but I guess it will always be a tug-of-war. Especially for youngsters it is a trade off between testing FA's quickly and being competitive. I'm also curious about the new generation. Compared to Towerriders's cyclists my best ones are a bit better trained. However, the problem of my team is that the age of my cyclist is very scattered. So I probably can stay for a long time in the sub-top, but will never win. By the way, it seems that the decay of the cyclist at 37 goes much quicker than those of 36. Which is a good thing I think. They are losing decimals every week (in different skills) and I expect that some of them will lose there second skill point on a single skill (by which I mean that what once was a 7 then will become a 5).
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Post by rarau on Jan 30, 2018 0:18:59 GMT 1
Like i said, not 100% top, but close to it. And thats what made the price i guess. We dont see those kind of cyclists every week. I am curious to watch your next step now eboese rarau. You know the problem in your squad, but you dont solve it? You still have 52 cyclists, and you still dont focus on sprint and tt? ))) i'm close bankrupcy and i cant train my trainer to sprint 15 if i didnt sell my flat 15 now i was on 0 with money now i m on 3.000.000 (2.000.000) and i lose every week 50-150.000 $ my wages are now 424k , last season was 600-650k i train now 2 with 34y , 1 with 33y, 1 with 29y, 1 with 28y, 1 with 26y, all the other 24 or under ) So to whom to give sprint? My tt is very good ; i dont have mood and CAPTAIN This season is only for survive and keep my scout, in the end i will keep my scout, i hope is a good decision. In 2 seasons my wages will be low and i could afford a better trainer. Hope to win some races in div 2 here is forbidden. I expect better results on same races but i m far away especially because of my low mood. I have left 2-3 races with chances but i dont believe. Is more easier to win at lotto then to win a race on div 1.1 this season
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Post by rarau on Jan 30, 2018 0:28:24 GMT 1
However, the problem of my team is that the age of my cyclist is very scattered. So I probably can stay for a long time in the sub-top, but will never win. Next season and the season after this you could win. Next season will be a battle in 3, you, bam and eboese. You and Bam could have chances if Eboese will have some cyclists retire. I see Thunder only in place 4 because i see some mistakes on him and also waste very fast his money. In 2 seasons if Ab will be in div 1 could have chances on top 3 or to win 1.1 Of course if Eboese will buy everything no one will have chances , i dont know how much finances he have. Also will count what captain will buy.
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Post by eboese on Jan 30, 2018 1:11:35 GMT 1
Why don't you, as soon as the title is yours, put up a younger cyclist as leader? In a few seasons wou wll have an acceptable leader. I can compare the riders from Towerriders with my own riders (and I think BAM and Heppie can do too) and I can tell you that they are quit good. They are not far from my riders so you bought very decent riders. You are right that it are 'only' 3 riders, where I have 24 of these riders, also selected on height/weight combination and all with good steering/balance. But for the competition it is healthy that more teams will get new good riders. Your oldies cannot compete anymore in 2 seasons, so then it is to the new generation. Really curious about the competition agains Heppie and BAM's riders! Hope to be there in season 21. Most likely I will indeed start training my own young new leader at one point. But once I go for that I will go all-in and not start with some half decent attempt in the last few weeks of this season. Depending on the outcome of this end of the season run (who retires, who doesn't) I'm probably going to try and squeeze one more season out of my current squad. I'm really interested in what's going to happen after that. I'm pretty sure there will be some teams dominating for a couple of seasons and then getting replaced by a team who trained the next generation of riders. I can see some teams being in the sub-top for an extended period of time (BAM, heppie), but I think the league winners are most likely going be the ones who focused on specific generations and will have a lot of squad depth (Ab, Slayer, Franconia, EGV). That being said I still feel we need to find a way to step up the pace of the game. Teams are literally investing years of development now to maybe dominate div 1.1 for say 3 or 4 seasons tops? Although I admire the patience of some I think it might be a pretty big turn-off for others, making it even more difficult to maintain a decent sized player-base (let alone grow the game).
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Post by eboese on Jan 30, 2018 1:21:30 GMT 1
Like i said, not 100% top, but close to it. And thats what made the price i guess. We dont see those kind of cyclists every week. I am curious to watch your next step now eboese rarau. You know the problem in your squad, but you dont solve it? You still have 52 cyclists, and you still dont focus on sprint and tt? Honestly, I'm convinced by now that if I ever want to win the league again in the future, this is not going to be the way to do it. Instead I will have to start from scratch, invest in young riders, train them for years and years and hopefully peak for a couple of seasons once they are 32+. Buying a developed full new generation will be too costly and even if it's possible it's unlikely you will be able to buy the best ones. And I don't want to play for place 4 in 1.1, I want to play to win.
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Post by eboese on Jan 30, 2018 1:24:47 GMT 1
However, the problem of my team is that the age of my cyclist is very scattered. So I probably can stay for a long time in the sub-top, but will never win. Next season and the season after this you could win. Next season will be a battle in 3, you, bam and eboese. You and Bam could have chances if Eboese will have some cyclists retire. I see Thunder only in place 4 because i see some mistakes on him and also waste very fast his money. In 2 seasons if Ab will be in div 1 could have chances on top 3 or to win 1.1 Of course if Eboese will buy everything no one will have chances , i dont know how much finances he have. Also will count what captain will buy. There's still plenty of money, but if I want to win Ab would have to put his team on the market. I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jan 30, 2018 10:04:59 GMT 1
There's still plenty of money, but if I want to win Ab would have to put his team on the market. I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen I am pretty sure too
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jan 30, 2018 10:26:51 GMT 1
Honestly, I'm convinced by now that if I ever want to win the league again in the future, this is not going to be the way to do it. Instead I will have to start from scratch, invest in young riders, train them for years and years and hopefully peak for a couple of seasons once they are 32+. Buying a developed full new generation will be too costly and even if it's possible it's unlikely you will be able to buy the best ones. And I don't want to play for place 4 in 1.1, I want to play to win. If I am honest, I think you are right. Like Heppie already said, his riders are a little bit better trained than the riders of towerriders. So are mine. And I have 24 of those guys, not all as good, since there is an age difference, but my oldest guys start to compete against the old riders. Only the top trained first generation riders still beat my best. I think you bought 3 fine riders, just like other teams that have a few competitive riders like Heppie, BAM and Neo. Thay can beat me at several races, but in the end I think I have more riders of the same level. I would be very dissapointed if I don't win division 2 next season and division 1 the year after. I have riders for almost every type of race, leaders and my riders have a lot of differrences in monoskills. They just need some extra TT and sprint skill. On the other hand, my top guys are now at a level that it takes a lot of weeks before they gain another skillpoint. So it means other guys will gain on my riders fast. But that has cost me 10(!) seasons then. 10 seasons after me winning div. 1 in season 11. Seasons of which you, Eboese, kept on playing in top division and won and won and won and earned a shitload of money. So was it all worth it? I don't know yet. Have to start winning first. But it is the only way I think, and that is why I drastically decided to go this way. Other teams like Slayer and Franconia followed the same route as I did. Their riders are younger than mine, so it will also take them some time before they will be a threat to me. But in my opinion this is the only way to win first division a few times. That is why you did. You started in the beginning, trained your riders to the max and bought other top riders. Teams who started later like Franconia, Tossboom, Heppie, BAM and I did a great job but were always behind from the beginning. You will have that too know. Does it take too long to become competitive again? One one hand, yes, like me, it is going to cost me 10 seasons. On the other hand, otherwise it is easy for everybody. So we should find a solution somewhere in the middle. Schizm is already checking if we can let younger riders gain skills faster, and older guys stop gaining skills at certain age. Off course we have to handle with care with this, otherwise it wouldn't be fair to the managers who trained for years.
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Post by rarau on Jan 30, 2018 11:33:00 GMT 1
by the way , is a general post, you all need to think how many seasons you need to win first division on hattrick, rugbymania or any other manager on the www then you know if 7-10 seasons are much or not.
All teams could have better results if they want, for example if Bam or Heppie wanted to win this season they needed to buy some stars, Guilemant for example.
In the end is impossible that all 150 users to win first division. My example -> i could finish this season on place 4 if i have money ; in the future i m not sure if i will be again in div 1 if people will stay. Bam and Heppie in my opinion if they want could stay for ever in div 1. The same for eboese, Ab, Franconia, Slayer, Schizm etc
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