Future of the game

[DeRodeLantaarn]

I have no judgment about what went wrong here, but being involved without the owners involvement seems wrong to me.
I agree that communication with a new developer is important.

[quiller]

Maybe (even without a new developper!!!!!) it would be a good idea that the people involved at least EVERY WEEK take a fixed hour to talk over discord or something like that? maybe even videocall...

[Ab Normaal]

Mar 26, 2023 19:24:49 GMT 1 cairnswm1 said:

Mar 22, 2023 16:15:06 GMT 1 Ab Normaal said:

And I have to be honest, this game needs only 1 thing. A programmer who can fix bugs, improve and develop the game and add thinks. Make it more attractive.
We did not succeed in finding a person who can and want to do it. We have tried but I don't see where to find him anymore.
And then just spend money year after year and see the number of active players decreasing every year more or less looks like 

We need a developer. I failed in finding one so I hope somebody else can. That is why I am prepared to step a side. Not because I don't like the game anymore. I am always willing to stay and help.

If you want a programmer, make sure you know what you want that programmer to do. Do not expect things that were not offerred or give things that are not wanted. Also make sure that you as the owners agree on what you want. 

Make a list of what you want a developer to do. 

I offered to create a new website - which went quite well until I lost everything - but you (the owners) were expecting a lot more than just a new website - but fixes - changes in training - etc etc. But as the owners you could not even agree on what changes you were expecting. Discuss discuss discuss, you wanted to make the training faster but someone in the team said that was the wrong solution - no further feedback or discussion was made.

Also - When your developer gives you some example of work done, give feedback, within days, if not hours. It does not give a developer any feeling of achievement if they do some work and show it to you and get no response. A generic "nice" is not feedback. Give ideas of what can be done better.

It was about 2 months after I showed the work that I did that I got my first feedback on the work I had done. In those 2 mnonths because I got no feedback I did very little work because it was clear (to me) that my work was not being valued.

Treat a new developer as part of the team, talk to them, tell them what you like and what you don't like, for example: comment on the colors they suggest, comment on the menu layout, try the screens, tell them if there is a better way to access or get to the information... etc etc. The feedback I finally got was great. But it was too late to keep me interested in doing any work on the game.

So, if you get a developer
1. Decide what you want them to do - make it clear
2. If you want changes - make sure you know what those changes are. 
3. Give feedback all the time, give feedback within 2 days of a new release being made available to you

Don't just expect the developer to make all the decisions.

I would actually still love to be involved. But without the owners involvement, I would rather go and write my own game than work on this one.

William,

First, I want to tell you that I respect all the time and effort you spend in the game

Maybe there could be a misunderstanding between Helder and me and that therefore you got the wrong idea. In that case I am sorry. The reason I wasn't in contact with you in the beginning is that I simply don't know anything about IT. Not software, not hardware. I could not give you a single answer on any of your questions. Therefore we decided it should be someone else who did the contact with you.

I think that in the message I sent you on March 3, 2022, I was very clear. I also gave an order from 1 to 6. After that there was only one message about the transition scheme. So, to be honest, I don't understand that you think we could not agree. Then maybe others must be sending messages to you behind my back, but what I did was definitely not discuss, discuss, discuss. We also have an whatsapp group were there were some discussions, but that is what it's for. We aren't looking only for a new website that looks nice, we want a great game. So want we need is bug fixing, improvement of the game and a new website including a mobile phone version.

It is also true that next to a busy job (I work 50 hours per week) I also have a wife and three children who want attention. So this is not my daily job. Therefore feedback cannot always been given the same day, but I do agree that in some cases it took to long, that is a fair point you are having although, although reading back in the app group I never see such a long time. Only once when you came something I immediately replied that I was about to leave for a long roadtrip and not be able to check it for three weeks.

So I thought I was very clear in what we wanted. But if it wasn't clear for you, why didn't you tell me that then? Or asked me about it? Then I could have explained better.

Basically I think the problem here is a communication problem. We did not succeed in getting the message right to you and therefore we had different expectations. That is a pity and for us something to learn. And I can understand that because of this you think you wasted a lot of your free time in this.

So for your improvement points:
1. I know what I want and I thought I was very clear, if not the other person should ask more clearity
2. I know what changes I want, I just don't know how, because as said I have zero knowledge of this
3. Fair point, this I should have done faster

I don't expect the developer to make decisions, but the developer should also tell or ask questions if something needs to be decided. Then I'll make decisions. That is my daily job.

Last but not least. I am still grateful for the time you spent on the game, completely selfless, so I respect that.
But I don't understand what it is that I did to you that make you say that you would like to stay involved but without the owners involvement. That would implicate that we did something terrible to you and we didn't.

[cairnswm1]

On the whatsapp group, Helder asked and suggested ideas about some training changes. But the answer was that maybe it is not the right way to solve the problem. There was a little more discussion but no final decision was made.

I am saying you are not doing enough discussion on the whatsapp group. Noone is making a final decision.

From my side I said I would do a new website as was requested n the forum. When bugs were raised I probably did not push back enough and say that was not in what I offerred.

>But I don't understand what it is that I did to you that make you say that you would like to stay involved but without the owners involvement. That would implicate that we did something terrible to you and we didn't.

Sorry, misunderstanding. I would love to be involved - but it needs MORE owner input and involvement!



PS. Wish I had not lost the work I had done. I quite liked it! I'm going to need to restart most of what I did

[cairnswm1]

I've logged onto the server and downloaded the binaries I had uploaded. So far it seems I can decompile them and maybe get back to the latest code I uploaded.

[cairnswm1]

I have been able to decompile it. Will get everything running again and let you know when it is ready

[Mike]

make the game great again

As soon as this game can be played on a cellphone it's gonna sky rocket.
Anyhow, I'm very glad to read all this and it's getting my hopes up again. Thank you for giving it another go.

[berdios]

Maybe engage some players with tools like convas.io/? If you want it for free you can use a Trello to do the same. Some more risk in people changing the requirements.

cairnswm1, I understand what you mean, never let customers give instructions directly to a developer

[naspa]

Apr 1, 2023 12:21:21 GMT 1 berdios said:

Maybe engage some players with tools like convas.io/? If you want it for free you can use a Trello to do the same. Some more risk in people changing the requirements.

cairnswm1 , I understand what you mean, never let customers give instructions directly to a developer

Yes, well, I think we need a bit of an intermediate role like a project leader or a poduct owner to connect the uses side to the development while playing a part in connecting (all this scrum agile is so overrated though, BUS, aligning business, user and supplier is as old as the road to Rome, but William has a poin, you cannot expect a developer to pull it all off alone)

[cairnswm1]

For everyone that would like to see what was already done:


peloton-game.eu/v3

There are no guarantees that the website works in any way. This is purely for you to see what I had tried to do. 

Known issues:
No changes are saved when captured (so you cannot change training or set tactics).

[Poekie]

Especially the transfer screen is a clear improvement!

[headcase]

Hi William, looking good. Personally I like the current compact way of showing the calendar more than your version. But all other pages are a relaxing improvement of the current version. Thanks for all your efforts.

[chakra]

Thanks for the effort. But Sorry, I like the actual lay out more than the new developed one.

[cairnswm1]

Apr 6, 2023 11:59:30 GMT 1 chakra said:

Thanks for the effort. But Sorry, I like the actual lay out more than the new developed one.

No need to apologise

Can you explain why? What do you like about the current layout that the new layout doesn't give you?

[JOOP Cycling Team]

I also don't know why someone makes a different layout, if the old one still works well?
I never keep track of data, everything via the mob, by feel, perfectly playable.
Don't understand the changes either.
I honestly think it's a waste of time.

The problem is that the game is deadly boring.
There is no passion, no additions to make it interesting again.

*Add real names in terms of different generations, but also with the correct FA.
You know what you are buying/getting in terms of talent.

This costs money and time to add this, come up with a concrete plan!!
We are going to do this and it costs xxxx euros. (we all have to cough up that)
Finished..

The game is very easy to patch up to something beautiful, but I'm never listened to.
If people cheat, they can continue to do so without consequences.
The game is rotten to the bone.
The biggest crook "wins" this game every year,

You have to drastically change the whole game and throw a lot of money at this.

The game is not attractive, certainly not for the lesser managers among us, who have a hopeless team.
For them the game must be even more boring than for me.
Give them a future, give them top talents and a nice budget.
restart the game.

Specifically for everyone.
start every season with 200 top talents with real names from the same generation of 18 years old, every year with the right FA and other generations following each other, easy to add as there is also a pro cycling manager.
Everyone gets xx million to make a new start.
Everyone has the same financial budget.
Sorry for the suffocating teams that have strangled the game for years.
Never had the passion to tweak things and keep cheaters in the game.
A rotten administration, with incompetent leadership.
It's like the wada, Fifa

The game must change!

See ya later.