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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 25, 2013 13:29:37 GMT 1
Congratz to Seberla. Fantastic result and a big candidate for second spot now! Very exciting.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 25, 2013 13:16:18 GMT 1
Mate, it's not all about TT... Come on... Not? Well, check today's result then. Of course you need terrain skills. But we all have riders with the needed terrain skills. But the ones with TT skills win. Every single race. You can better have a little less terrain skill and a little more TT skill. And since all our riders have sufficient terrain skill, all you need to do now is train on TT skill. That is also what I meant with not varied. It was, and will be untill all riders have reached 10 on TT. Anyway, perhaps it is only me, but I am losing intetest very fast.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 25, 2013 0:10:01 GMT 1
Aw, I originally only subscribed to yesterday's race as I thought it was a 2 race tour. In the end I took advantage of the PM Nikeboy unsubscribe offer, yet now it's gonna cost me participation in the race I can actually do well in Luckily it's not costing me anything much, but hopefully no-one else is too inconvenienced/annoyed by it. We're on dodgy footing as a game I think. You can still subscribe to sundays race.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 25, 2013 0:09:01 GMT 1
Btw i think u're wrong it's 80 points for the second place and 60 for third... Or am i wrong? So i miss 35 points... And the 2nd place... No, it is 60.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 24, 2013 14:22:35 GMT 1
What is happening with the Premium money? My premium expired today and I always have been a premium member. I am lucky that I can easily afford it, but the question is rising to me what happens with the money. IP isn't there anymore and doesnt do anything for the game anymore. Originally it eas said as development for the game. Well, nothing is developed anymore. Who gets the money? If Nike does, I would extend my premium immediately today. Or if disk space is buyed, I also immediately extend. But if IP does, why should I do it then? He never gives a sign that he is alive or even caring about the game. His only message was about the fund raising. Can somebody tell me what is happening with it? I can tell you 2 things : 1. IP is paying more per month on server costs than he receives on Premium money 2. I am not getting any penny (but I am not paying anythin as well) Clear. Thank you. Than I will extend immediately today. By the way, I absolutely don't mind if you get a small fee for your work and I don't think that IP should pay more for the server. Find a solution?
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 24, 2013 10:33:44 GMT 1
What is happening with the Premium money? My premium expired today and I always have been a premium member. I am lucky that I can easily afford it, but the question is rising to me what happens with the money. IP isn't there anymore and doesnt do anything for the game anymore. Originally it eas said as development for the game. Well, nothing is developed anymore.
Who gets the money? If Nike does, I would extend my premium immediately today. Or if disk space is buyed, I also immediately extend. But if IP does, why should I do it then? He never gives a sign that he is alive or even caring about the game. His only message was about the fund raising.
Can somebody tell me what is happening with it?
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 24, 2013 10:20:50 GMT 1
The reason that Rats and PAN dominate the flat races is that they have cyclist with a better TT skill than others. So yes, many results can be explained purely based on TT skill. It is also the reason that Te Winkel won Sunday's race. You can discuss if that is a right thing or not, but at least it's a thing we already could have tested for 2 seasons, so it shouldn't be a big surprise. In the U21 there were more things happening than just counting skills. Well, it was said that TT was going to have more impact on the mountains, so that wasn't a big surprise, but it also has been said that for the flat the influence wasn't that high because they would paddle along. But that doesn't seem correct. Then it is really easy then for all teams. Just train TT. That just realizes me that this game isn't that varied as I thought it was.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 24, 2013 10:10:14 GMT 1
Not correct. I had only one helper. If he did stay with Gommers how could he helped Negri then? Like I said "Only strange thing is that when Arbuatti helps Gommers, he doesn't stick with him immediatly after the fall (but I guess what happens is that the fall for example costs 2 minutes and one low-skilled helper is making that 1 minute), but the simulation still sees Arbuatti in the peloton. But I don't think that can be called a bug." So what I mean: Arbuatti first helps Gommers in a mathecally way; which means e.g. that Gommers drops 1 minute instead of 2 minutes. But Arbuatti doesn't drop back yet. He does that AFTER the part ended, so he is still able to help Negri as well. So that is the first function for a helper; to help cyclists with a fall/flat. When the part ended the second function of a helper started; dropping back after the best GC/attacker/sprinter dropped behind. And that is what he did. At the end of the part, he was already behind together with Gommers. I respect your opinion and I am very grateful that you even take the time to read it all and try to explain it to me, but I don't believe this explanation. If the TT is that important, Gommers should be able to come back to the peloton with one of the highest TT skills in the race (single attackers can stay away in front of a peloton) and it isn't said in the race report that Arbuatti helped Gommers. If he did, he could never helped Negri. And if the engine still sees him in the Peloton and that he helped Gommers a little bit, but not enough is just a little too much if's and but's.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 23, 2013 23:52:10 GMT 1
The difference between Vijver and Seberla's riders on TT isn't very big. About one point more than the skill difference. And about the attacking part, I lost a lot of good results because my rider only attacked 3 times were others did 5. That way you can always think of something why it didn't work. In this case, you would say that the TT difference did it. In that case, how do you declare than the U21 race?
I don't think there were a lot of helpers today because ther aren't much leadership points. And if the TT counts as hard as the terrain skill, Gommers has 9. 5 for flat and 4 on TT. I wonder what helper in the peloton had 9 altogether on flat + TT.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 23, 2013 23:40:09 GMT 1
In the U21 it seems the following happened: Gommers falls: 1 low-skilled helper is not enough to get him back immediatly. Nothing strange. Negri has a flat tire: 1 helper is enough to close the gap to the peloton. Nothing strange. THEN Gommers is behind the peloton and Arbuatti is going back to him to help him. Nothing strange. Only strange thing is that when Arbuatti helps Gommers, he doesn't stick with him immediatly after the fall (but I guess what happens is that the fall for example costs 2 minutes and one low-skilled helper is making that 1 minute), but the simulation still sees Arbuatti in the peloton. But I don't think that can be called a bug. So for the U21 race I don't really see strange things; they are more unlucky than bugged. Your only attacker falls and only has a lower-skilled helper to help him. The 2 of them cannot follow the speed of the peloton, which is still very high because noone attacked so far, so the best helpers of the peloton set the speed. When certain teams already have cyclists upfront, the helpers of those teams won't help to set the speed. Not correct. I had only one helper. If he did stay with Gommers how could he helped Negri then?
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 23, 2013 20:52:55 GMT 1
That is a nice try, but not correct. If there is a helper, a fall will never cost timeloss. That is what the helper for. Check it in whatever race you want. If there is a helper who helps, they will both stay in the same group as they were originally in. Not true I think (but Nike would have to confirm). I believe helpers try to help... but if they can't keep the rider who falls/flats in the group they drop back and help him chase. It doesn't SAY... "rider X tries to help rider Y after his fall but can't get him back"... but the fact he's in the chasing group with him indicates that's exactly what happened. I always thought helpers just made it more likely that a rider was able to stay with the group, not a certainty. I certainly HOPE it's not a certainty... otherwise low-skill helpers would be way too helpful. What I believe is wrong about the scenario is that the helper SHOULDN'T have tried to help the no-tactic rider at all according to the rules put forward. Helpers are supposed to ignore no-tactic, save fitness and other helpers. They are ONLY supposed to help attackers, GC and final sprinters. There is one other possibility (though I didn't think the engine worked this way). If the assumption for helping someone with a flat is that you "give up your wheel", then your helper may have already been dropped when he helped the first rider and thus unable to help the second (main) rider when he crashed. Kurtinsc, that can't be. The main rider fell first. He couldn't be helped. Then, after that, the no tactic rider had a flat. He has been helped, so the helper was still in the peloton, otherwise he couldn't have helped. The main man could not have dropped before since he has flat 5 and was riding on 100% while I had 2 other riders, one with flat 2 and one with flat 3 riding on 70%. So my main man always should have been in the peloton and should have been helped by my helper who also was still in the peloton. And if a flat 2 and a flat 3 rider on 70% are able to follow, it should not be a problem for a helper, flat 3+ and a flat 5 guy to follow the pace after a fall.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 23, 2013 19:39:55 GMT 1
Arbuatti was helper, Gommers attacker. Other riders no tactic. All in first peloton. Gommers had a fall, no help. After that Negri had a fall, Arbuatti helped. End of the part: Negr (flat 2) still in the peloton, Arbuatti (flat 3+) and Gommers (flat 5) together behind the peloton.... So, yes, I know the order how helpers work. Therefore only one helper an only one with another tactic. Can you explain now? Thanks for trying! Let's make an attempt to explain this. In the race report is written that: 00:14:35 The cyclists of the first group enter part 3 00:10:31 Negri has a flat tire but his teammate is there to help! 00:09:14 Gommers takes a tumble and smashes to the ground 00:07:17 The cyclists of the first group enter part 2 And: Stand after part 2: 22. Negri 1 (peloton) 00:14:35 29. Arbuatti 2 00:15:25 30. Gommers 2 00:15:25 So first Gommers had a fall and then Negri a flat tire. I think a fall causes much more time lose then a flat tire (seems logical). When Gommers falls he loses a lot of time and Arbuatti helps him. This is ok since Arbuatti is helper and Gommers is set as the only attacker and there are no final sprinters. At the end of part 2 they are to far back and considered as a group behind the peloton. A bit later Negri has a flat tire and loses a bit of time. Arbuatti isn't in the peloton so he can't help Negri and there are no other helper that can help him, but Negri is not to far back at the end of the section and is considered as part of the peloton. I guess that the race engine outputs the message "Negri has a flat tire but his teammate is there to help!" to indicate that Negri had a flat tire but was able to get into the peloton before the end of the section. That is a nice try, but not correct. If there is a helper, a fall will never cost timeloss. That is what the helper for. Check it in whatever race you want. If there is a helper who helps, they will both stay in the same group as they were originally in.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 23, 2013 17:13:23 GMT 1
Arbuatti was helper, Gommers attacker. Other riders no tactic. All in first peloton. Gommers had a fall, no help. After that Negri had a fall, Arbuatti helped. End of the part: Negr (flat 2) still in the peloton, Arbuatti (flat 3+) and Gommers (flat 5) together behind the peloton.... So, yes, I know the order how helpers work. Therefore only one helper an only one with another tactic. Can you explain now? Thanks for trying! All this happened in the same part (both falls)? I would expect at the end of a section where Gommers fell and couldn't keep up that Arbuatti would drop back and help... and if all that happened in one section then that's exactly what happened. The problem would be that if both falls happened in the same part, some bug in the code caused the helper to help the wrong guy. Definitely an issue, but a hard to catch one (two falls in the same section, one rider who should be helped, the other not). If it was in different sections then that is a bug that should have been caught. Yes, all in the same (short) part. First the fall of Gommers (no help), a few minutes later the flat of Negri (with help), another few minutes later, end of the part. Everybody in the complete peloton, except Gommers and the helper, Arbuatti.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 23, 2013 15:10:39 GMT 1
Arbuatti was helper, Gommers attacker. Other riders no tactic. All in first peloton. Gommers had a fall, no help. After that Negri had a fall, Arbuatti helped. End of the part: Negr (flat 2) still in the peloton, Arbuatti (flat 3+) and Gommers (flat 5) together behind the peloton....
So, yes, I know the order how helpers work. Therefore only one helper an only one with another tactic.
Can you explain now? Thanks for trying!
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Post by Ab Normaal on Dec 23, 2013 14:53:04 GMT 1
yes the problem seems to be that the 2 U21 races are linked as in a tour. and my guess is that is what caused earlyer problems True. I designed these races. I designed 3 U21 races to be the "Tour de l'Avenir". But the crew didn't want a 3 day U21 tour. So I think they decided to make it standard U21 races. That is the reason why they have sprints in it. But how it is possible that they aren't simply to put in as a single race, that I don't know...
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