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Post by JoeLag on Jan 4, 2019 13:14:01 GMT 1
Ridiculous - and not the first time for these races with extremely long sections.
How can we prevent this?
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Post by ElGringo on Jan 4, 2019 13:54:11 GMT 1
Ridiculous - and not the first time for these races with extremely long sections. How can we prevent this? Creating new stages or silimar stages with different section km
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Post by JoeLag on Jan 4, 2019 14:13:05 GMT 1
But this wouldn't generally improve realism. Imho the problem is that the chance of a successful peloton division on 10 consecutive 5 km flat sections is 0 whereas it is near 1 if a section is >25.
But I agree: Limiting the length of sections would at least circumvent these unrealistic races.
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Post by headcase on Jan 4, 2019 14:30:09 GMT 1
Interesting stage indeed. ALthough I think that the riders who performed today will not be high in GC after 3 weeks of Giro.
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Post by rarau on Jan 4, 2019 20:47:21 GMT 1
But this wouldn't generally improve realism. Imho the problem is that the chance of a successful peloton division on 10 consecutive 5 km flat sections is 0 whereas it is near 1 if a section is >25. But I agree: Limiting the length of sections would at least circumvent these unrealistic races. what is the problem? always was 5-10-15 minutes from cyclists who attack towards/beside peloton. Everything is normal. What will happen on Falzes - Cortina d'Ampezzo? the same only that will be for mountain cyclists. You cannot win General Standings in Italy and Spain without some flat and mountain on your cyclist. Is better France where we have few mountains usually? You cannot win General on big tours without attacking, you cant win only with tactic helper and save fitness. My Zeff mountain and general cyclist lost today 15 minutes. What is the problem? He will play for general standings and probable will be in top 5. For what we train cyclists if the difference between attacking on 100% and save fitness is 2 minutes??Fjodor Krumrey (6066) attack at 75% now is at 90% and 3 minutes Thibaut Loest (76783) the same at 3.30 minutes my helpers are at 5 minutes even was HELPERS and have normal flat and not high flat my mountain star is at place 38 at 15.39 min , normal results, because was on Save Fitness. If Zeff today was at 3 minutes then he crush Italy (of course not said anything about ttt race) This game is not only for polivalent cyclists.
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Post by naspa on Jan 4, 2019 21:16:33 GMT 1
Well the point seems to be that it is not very realistic. Having said that - there is more in the game that is not very realistic or fair. Now with the funraces the new engine tries to reduce some of the negative sides and make the game better playable for new generation-teams and more appealing to "outsiders". I wonder what this kind of races would do with the new racing engine. I guess the problem of "not so realistic" is not really solved in this case because the late attack points. In case of early attack points, the time differences would not have been so big, I guess. But there comes another point - this is also true for mountain races. Early and daring attacks - which to my opinion make cycling races attractive- would almost never pay off again. I fear there is a chance we end up looking at Team Sky controlling the TdF - helpers making pace and a last attack for the win of a strong rider. Like Rarau I do not see a problem in having some flat-guys having a bit of fun today and taking 15 minutes on a leader or mountaineer who was riding at SF. If it does have severe consequences for your GC man, he probably was not good enough anyway.
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Post by JoeLag on Jan 5, 2019 0:33:25 GMT 1
A bunch of cyclists has won a huge margin even before the first attack point. The peloton has been smashed to pieces even before any cyclist attacked at all.
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Post by naspa on Jan 5, 2019 8:56:35 GMT 1
If I consider the race in div 2:2, and look at the riders involved, I can place the few minutes in the game mechanism. Younger riders, riders on SF, riders with lower fitness. If there would have been more an shorter flat pieces, to my understandig of the race engine, the field would be more scattered and the differcences would certainly not have been less.
I guess the only hard feelings here are with riders for YC on SF who lost a lot more than hoped for. But well, if they were bad on flat anyway, they might gain the loss back double when climbing.
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Post by dustin on Jan 5, 2019 9:17:19 GMT 1
I see it as a real world race with a lot flat and ..... with a lot of wind.
Sometimes happen nothing, sometimes it is war, with big time gaps. When you lost contact, you do not come back. The strongest are in the front and the others try to follow.
I like it to see such of races in real world, also in peloton it is nice to see what happened. It is tactical, real tactical, not only attacking in such races, but you have to think about what you want. Which skills do you need, how many fitness you will use.
And then is the question, shall it break or not.
I like that.
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Post by pollyjean on Jan 5, 2019 10:44:19 GMT 1
I see it as a real world race with a lot flat and ..... with a lot of wind. Sometimes happen nothing, sometimes it is war, with big time gaps. When you lost contact, you do not come back. The strongest are in the front and the others try to follow. I like it to see such of races in real world, also in peloton it is nice to see what happened. It is tactical, real tactical, not only attacking in such races, but you have to think about what you want. Which skills do you need, how many fitness you will use. And then is the question, shall it break or not. I like that. completely agree
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jan 5, 2019 12:05:55 GMT 1
Peloton has nothing to do with real life. In real life you don't win races by attacking early. I like the variation of the game. The more different things the better. It requires tactics.
Having a race with long strokes means that you have to handle another tactic. If you have a GC rider with 7 on flat, you know he will get in trouble and yoy have to sacrifice a helper to it. Otherwise he can lose contact and lose a lot of time. In the mountains, when you have a stage with 75 km mountain like in stage 3, the flat riders will lose moren than half an hour.
I think it is good when there are multiple goals to have in a big tour. It must be so many goals that it is to hard for the best teams to win it all. As having one of the best teams in the game at the moment, I don't speak for what is good for myself but in general. The way this Giro has been built up means that you have to make choices, so a huge compliment for the manager who made the calendar.
A TTT of 38 km in stage 5 means that if you want to go for GC, you'll have to save energy of your riders, which means no stage hunting. And the long strokes in this stage 1 means sacrificing 1 spot in your line up for a helper.
Going for green jersey is another goal which cannot be combined with stage hunting, GC and MJ. You simply cannot win it all!
So there are achievable and realistic goals for every team. That is what I like most of this game. Making choices, that is what a manager game makes it worth for me.
Therefore I am in favour for stages with long strokes every now and then. As long as it is every now and then. You just have to calculate it in your tactics.
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Post by naspa on Jan 5, 2019 12:26:07 GMT 1
@ab, as long as the long flat strokes are not attacking strokes, what is the difference between 2 flat strokes of 25 km and 10 strokes of 5km? I would say that more riders would be dropped with more strokes, but the differences in time between last and first riders will not be less. Or does the intermediate sprint influence the average speed more because of the longer strokes so more will be dropped with the long strokes?
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jan 5, 2019 12:34:03 GMT 1
If there are no sprints I think more riders will be dropped on 2x25 then 10x5 but Schizm is the only one who can answer that for certain. If it is an attacking point, then the speed will always be higher, but the best flatters will attack anyway, so I don’t see why that makes a difference.
It does make a difference when it is an intermediate sprint. The speed of the peloton will go up and that means that the weaker riders will drop. But I am in favour of having more intermediate sprints before the first attackpoint so going for green can be a new goal. Instead of the grean jersey going to a GC guy who attacks every stage on 75%, ends 5th in every stage and therefore wins enough points to win the green.
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Post by naspa on Jan 5, 2019 12:39:17 GMT 1
If there are no sprints I think more riders will be dropped on 2x25 then 10x5 but Schizm is the only one who can answer that for certain. If it is an attacking point, then the speed will always be higher, but the best flatters will attack anyway, so I don’t see why that makes a difference. It does make a difference when it is an intermediate sprint. The speed of the peloton will go up and that means that the weaker riders will drop. But I am in favour of having more intermediate sprints before the first attackpoint so going for green can be a new goal. Instead of the grean jersey going to a GC guy who attacks every stage on 75%, ends 5th in every stage and therefore wins enough points to win the green. Yes, that might be the thing. As with many strokes the weakest and the best flat-riders will be seperated more early, there might be left a bigger group where GC riders can hide a bit more with short races -so more mass in between te extremes. However... The reason for short strokes is many times as well that the terrain will have some climbs as well - and of course this will make the dropping allrounders and GC'ers vs flat-specialist less easy. For the new enigine. What is a consideration though is that in races like this I many times have put my GC riders as "sprinter" to be sure they would end up in front. I think the game would be very interesting if one could select not only attack but also sprint points (and of course this would cost -preferably fitness instead of tactical points).
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