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Post by Mike on Nov 20, 2018 14:54:05 GMT 1
As long as we don't have to start over (again), it's all fine with me.
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Post by dustin on Nov 20, 2018 16:01:02 GMT 1
quote: "We thought we could cover that by making a complicated skill conversion formula where training under the new speeds would be simulated for all existing cyclist (and then compared to the previous skills, keeping the best set) but then someone pointed out that such a conversion would mean a big change in transfervalue for a lot of cyclists and as a results in the offered wages. Which could result in teams going bankrupt in no time."
Looks good, may be in combination with a financial compensation for the difference in value/wages?
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Post by pollyjean on Nov 20, 2018 17:22:34 GMT 1
26 to 30, that is. Anyway, isn't it possible to just slightly tweak the formula till you have (in 5 to 10 seasons) the desired result? This could be considered as option 3 next to the options 1 and 2 mentioned by Ab above. But still the Con 1 stays almost the same: very unfair for the managers who carefully trained their teams for a lot of years and seasons and are almost ready to finally taste the success of that. Escpecially for teams that are training 20 - 25 year olds now. All their efforts will not pay off as they currently would.
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Post by pollyjean on Nov 20, 2018 17:25:19 GMT 1
quote: "We thought we could cover that by making a complicated skill conversion formula where training under the new speeds would be simulated for all existing cyclist (and then compared to the previous skills, keeping the best set) but then someone pointed out that such a conversion would mean a big change in transfervalue for a lot of cyclists and as a results in the offered wages. Which could result in teams going bankrupt in no time." Looks good, may be in combination with a financial compensation for the difference in value/wages? But then your transfermarket could be destroyed. Maybe total different riders will become more usefull than others. Do we improve pricemoney then if wages go up? Then we could need a whole new economy system?
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Post by naspa on Nov 20, 2018 18:16:47 GMT 1
I think Dustin has found a new business model :-) Which kind riders will be compensated? Mostly the category 30-35 that are not profitting for getting their full potential compared to the upcoming late 20's?
Can we not implement it gradually? 20% of it every next 5 seasons?
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Post by JOOP Cycling Team on Nov 20, 2018 22:00:34 GMT 1
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Post by Poekie on Nov 20, 2018 23:21:08 GMT 1
Currently a squad consists of 18-21 yr olds for youth races 22-25 yr olds for youth classification 26-30 yr olds for the future 31-38 yr olds for races I don't think a lot needs to be changed. My proposal: 18-30 yr: no big changes (maybe some slight tweaks) 31-32 yr: loses skills at same speed as training can gain them 33-38 yr: loses skills progressively faster And gradually implement them. Also please don't forget about leadership development and
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Post by evild on Nov 20, 2018 23:24:45 GMT 1
This is a difficult question to answer because you cant do right for every player. You will have to disapoint some, others might feel lucky. Big implements never go without complaints and irritations, but something needs to be done.
Personally, i agree with the fact that cyclists in the high 20s are useless ATM. Key is to make the oldies less stronger. They dont have to retire, we just need something to adapt that they dont rule an entire season(s) anymore. The predictability needs to disapear. In 75% of the cases you can look at the race lineup and predict the winner Also a surprising factor might be fun. Like in real life. Talents 26-28y old, doing extraordinary well in a tour and battling for a stage win. At this moment this is not reachable
From the other side, now riders 26-31 are only there for training training training. Why not make them the strongest generation and give cyclists a shorter carreer? Let them retire at 34-35 and give the next generation their shot much earlier. More managers need to adapt and change their training strategy. Other players, new names, new and more chances to climb up and to trigger the interest from new and less active managers
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Post by pollyjean on Nov 21, 2018 13:44:02 GMT 1
Currently a squad consists of 18-21 yr olds for youth races 22-25 yr olds for youth classification 26-30 yr olds for the future 31-38 yr olds for races I don't think a lot needs to be changed. My proposal: 18-30 yr: no big changes (maybe some slight tweaks) 31-32 yr: loses skills at same speed as training can gain them 33-38 yr: loses skills progressively faster And gradually implement them. I like this suggestion (or something like this) the most I think. Because: - there does not need to be changed too much (with all the risks involved) For example mood effect will be lowered allready with the new engine and the new engine might allready get us searching for new types of riders. - it does not have the heavy negative effects as other ideas have
I can't find it anymore but someone else also suggested just to let riders decrease in skill allready from a little earlier age. Then we can keep retirement ages as they are but many riders above 35 will not be that strong anymore.
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Post by JOOP Cycling Team on Nov 21, 2018 18:23:15 GMT 1
Currently a squad consists of 18-21 yr olds for youth races 22-25 yr olds for youth classification 26-30 yr olds for the future 31-38 yr olds for races I don't think a lot needs to be changed. My proposal: 18-30 yr: no big changes (maybe some slight tweaks) 31-32 yr: loses skills at same speed as training can gain them 33-38 yr: loses skills progressively faster And gradually implement them. I like this suggestion (or something like this) the most I think. Because: - there does not need to be changed too much (with all the risks involved) For example mood effect will be lowered allready with the new engine and the new engine might allready get us searching for new types of riders. - it does not have the heavy negative effects as other ideas have
I can't find it anymore but someone else also suggested just to let riders decrease in skill allready from a little earlier age. Then we can keep retirement ages as they are but many riders above 35 will not be that strong anymore.
Exacly, i have edit my response to smiles..
But iám think about the game Peloton.
The most real cyclist are not riding races any more on the highest level on a age of 36/40. (Only Valverde and my caracter Joop Zoetemelk )
But this game isn't realistic..
1. It's more funny racing with a strange tactic (select one of the first attack points, for a win!)
2. race captain/ leader, (i have never see it before for more attack points, more a old experience leader to help your best rider with placing on the peloton.)
3. fitness trainers, (what the hell is that? new dope>?)
4. Tall and fat riders winning the Giro and Tour. (very strange) 5. A young cyclist never winning a normal race.
6. Old and wise cyclist are winning everything..
For a realistic race and for a easy to step in the game..
1. Change the race editor (perfect done)
2. Delete the leaders and give everybody the same attack points. 25?
3. Quit this option. (give a bonus to the managers to have one)
4. It doesn't matter but it look strange.. 5. More attack points in the begin of the race and more attack points in the final. (form of the day, can give a young rider a 10/30% boost, to win the race)
- Younger 18 to 21 will more boost 30% 25/30 give a 10% boost
- older than 30 years don't give a boost any more. 6. 33 year old riders are loses skills very fast.. for a realistic race a changes for all kind of riders.
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Post by quiller on Nov 21, 2018 19:22:47 GMT 1
I like the idea about your cyclists being able to race on their top for more years… So fast training till 24-25 and after that decreasing training speed until around 30… 36 should be the last age before decreasing in stats…
BUT : make it a good system from the start allthough that will be more difficult to implement (so NO RUSH): make a random (invisible) skill about the decreasing in skills starting between 30 and 36... Also : I would like the idea to 'limit' races for the younger riders. This would be possible IF you have full speed in training, but if you race for example more then 10 races in a season your training speed decreases very fast…
The system i suggest is much more difficult to program / implement, but I believe that it would be a good one.
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Post by heppie on Nov 21, 2018 22:51:26 GMT 1
Currently a squad consists of 18-21 yr olds for youth races 22-25 yr olds for youth classification 26-30 yr olds for the future 31-38 yr olds for races I don't think a lot needs to be changed. My proposal: 18-30 yr: no big changes (maybe some slight tweaks) 31-32 yr: loses skills at same speed as training can gain them 33-38 yr: loses skills progressively faster And gradually implement them. Also please don't forget about leadership development and I agree largely with Poekie. I think we only need a small adaptation in the training formula. Last season we saw that even in division 1 incidentally cyclists of 30 and 31 can win (and we even had a 29 year old winning). In division 3:3 Slayer crushed every one with his cyclists of <=28 years (a 25 year old could win there).
Another thing that we must keep in mind is that up till now we were still dealing with the first generation cyclists. This generation consisted of too many cyclist compared to the number of active teams for two reasons. First, the cyclist that started at 18/19 in season 1 had exactly the same amount of training as the older ones. Second, at the start we had over 1000 active teams, while later on many managers quitted which allowed the remaining mangers to buy the best cyclists (well-trained and 18/19 at the start of the game). In the next seasons there will be less fully trained cyclists, so there is more room for the younger ones to get a good result.
Compared to the current situation I think that it's desirable if cyclists can win 2/3 seasons earlier. My suggestion is to stop training at 33 instead of 35 and start retirement and skill decrease also 2 seasons earlier. Maybe (not necessary) compensate the loss of these two seasons of training by a slightly higher training speed for the 18-32 year old cyclists. Increasing the training speed for 18-25 year old excessively (doubling or so) is I think not a good thing. A 4wk injury will than be a loss of 8wks of training now which is too much I think.
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Post by Poekie on Feb 11, 2019 16:51:39 GMT 1
Currently a squad consists of 18-21 yr olds for youth races 22-25 yr olds for youth classification 26-30 yr olds for the future 31-38 yr olds for races I don't think a lot needs to be changed. My proposal: 18-30 yr: no big changes (maybe some slight tweaks) 31-32 yr: loses skills at same speed as training can gain them 33-38 yr: loses skills progressively faster And gradually implement them.
Instead of gradually implementing it, it is also possible to do it in one go, but to announce it a few seasons before. e.g. start with this in season 25.
I haven't heard any developers, what do they think about the idea?
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Post by pollyjean on Feb 11, 2019 19:54:51 GMT 1
I'm thinking more and more not to change too much because...
- there are many risks involved, when changing something there might be a lot of consequences - a lot more younger riders are winning races currently than before, since the very large generation that would have been 39/40/41 years old now has retired allready or is weakened a lot. - it is still quite unsure how the new engine will influence the game and wether it will be an improvement in reality or not.
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Post by wheelnut on Feb 14, 2019 9:55:51 GMT 1
Why not introduce changes over a period of time this way ...
Slowly reduce training stop from 35 to 33 over two seasons I.e. 34 then 33. Slowly speed up training for riders 23 years old or lower. Reduce pop time from 7 weeks optimum to six weeks first season. Next reduce to 5 for 18 and 19 year olds and 20 to 23 year olds keep at 6. Then cyclists over 25 increase to 8. Following season make 30 year olds 9. For the above keep the quick pops for skills up to level 7. Finally have it so we have fast training 7 skill or under for 18, 19 year olds at 5 weeks for a pop. 20 to 23 at 6. 24 to 25 at 7. 26 to 29 at 8. 30 to 32 at 9. Reduce skills from 33. Auto retire from 35 with increasing chance. For skills over 7 use talent and apply the formula of age/10 as factor to reduce speed I.e. 18 yea old would be -1.8, 25 would be -2.5, etc. I do not know how the formula works so apply as a sum or multiplier (or subtraction or division) as required.
It is impossible to apply these changes without affect on those long term trainers (I am one of these) but for game improvement you need to gradually change training. In this way you will bring at least 95 percent of managers with you. Overall changes approximately 5 seasons.
Ps I am inclined to eliminate altogether the hidden skill talent. Make training for skills equal. Makes things simpler and the starting skill levels more important. To reduce super skills you can link skills to wages so very high skilled riders cost exponentially higher wages. And of course slowing of skill pops at higher skill levels.
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