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Post by Genomico on Nov 13, 2018 20:37:23 GMT 1
MOD edit : these posts where moved here from the "Game improvements ..." thread , here you can find the real start of this thread -> peloton.proboards.com/post/114641/thread
Any news on the plans of increasing the training speed for young cyclists and lower the age that cyclists are on their top (26-30 years)? Are those plans still up? Edit: In that way you don't have to train cyclists 16 seasons or 5 years (!) before they can start winning races. It will make starting training youngsters so much more enjoyable as cyclists now can earn points their whole lifetime (U21 races, youngster jerseys and soon after being able to win races).
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Post by ElGringo on Nov 13, 2018 22:55:20 GMT 1
Any news on the plans of increasing the training speed for young cyclists and lower the age that cyclists are on their top (26-30 years)? Are those plans still up? Edit: In that way you don't have to train cyclists 16 seasons or 5 years (!) before they can start winning races. It will make starting training youngsters so much more enjoyable as cyclists now can earn points their whole lifetime (U21 races, youngster jerseys and soon after being able to win races). We want that but Schizm is the one looking to the code. The problem is the riders that are in teams already trained. It would be easy if we make a reset in game but that isn't possible because we will have managers that already spend some years training a new team, so to change that in code we need a brilliant idea and we are oppening for suggestions. Schizm is the one that can answer well your question. The proposal should be like this? - fast training till 25y - normal trainign between 25y/30y - at 30y stop training - at 36 years start decreasing skills
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Post by Genomico on Nov 14, 2018 3:06:34 GMT 1
We want that but Schizm is the one looking to the code. The problem is the riders that are in teams already trained. It would be easy if we make a reset in game but that isn't possible because we will have managers that already spend some years training a new team, so to change that in code we need a brilliant idea and we are oppening for suggestions. Schizm is the one that can answer well your question. The proposal should be like this? - fast training till 25y - normal trainign between 25y/30y - at 30y stop training - at 36 years start decreasing skills Thanks for your reply. My proposal would be: - fast training till 25y - stop training between 26y/30y - at 31 years start decreasing skills There must be a way to (step-by-step) implement this without disadvantaging current cyclist too much. I'll think of a suggestion.
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Post by Poekie on Nov 14, 2018 9:47:50 GMT 1
Thanks for your reply. My proposal would be: - fast training till 25y - stop training between 26y/30y - at 31 years start decreasing skills Why not slow training instead of fast training?
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Post by Slayer772004 on Nov 14, 2018 10:54:51 GMT 1
Is it technical not possible to implant that new part only related to new 18 or 19 year old riders ? Not over the whole game, but only to the riders 'born' starting from season 22. So the new formula is only applying to new riders, not the current riders.
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Post by bosko on Nov 14, 2018 12:45:16 GMT 1
Or if you have a current trainingfactor for each age and a desired training factor for each age, you change the factor with 1/5 of the difference every season for 5 seasons, so you get the desired training factor in season 26? Proposition: factor = 1+POWER((Age-18)-8;2)/50 Age | 18 y | 19 y | 20 y | 21 y | 22 y | 23 y | 24 y | 25 y | 26 y | 27 y | 28 y | 29 y |
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Trainingfactor | 2,28 | 1,98 | 1,72 | 1,5 | 1,32 | 1,18 | 1,08 | 1,02 | 1 | 0,98 | 0,92 | 0,82 |
Age | 30 y | 31 y | 32 y | 33 y | 34 y | 35 y | 36 y | 37 y | 38 y | 39 y | 40 y |
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Trainingfactor | 0,68 | 0,5 | 0,28 | 0,02 | -0,28 | -0,62 | -1 | -1,42 | -1,88 | -2,38 | -2,92 | |
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Post by Schizm on Nov 14, 2018 13:22:23 GMT 1
In short the problem with changing the training speed is that we have the risk to end up with another lost generation. If we implement it right away all cyclists between (est.) 27 and 32 (33) will become (almost) useless. We thought we could cover that by making a complicated skill conversion formula where training under the new speeds would be simulated for all existing cyclist (and then compared to the previous skills, keeping the best set) but then someone pointed out that such a conversion would mean a big change in transfervalue for a lot of cyclists and as a results in the offered wages. Which could result in teams going bankrupt in no time.
We already worked out a new trainingspeed formula long ago, in general the fast gain is reached in ages 18-27, at ages 28-32 the skills will stay more or less at the same level (by training them you will go from a small gain to a small loss). From 33 on skills will get increasingly less.
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Post by chakra on Nov 17, 2018 13:43:03 GMT 1
So training above age 28 is becoming useless?
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Post by Schizm on Nov 17, 2018 14:05:01 GMT 1
So training above age 28 is becoming useless? that is a wrong conclusion, because the cyclists will still gain skill the first seasons (less the before but still) after that a few seasons of low loss IF he gets trained and even after that he can be trained to make the loss lower (only when he gets (or is near) to the age of 40 the gain of training will be to low to notice it.
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Post by naspa on Nov 17, 2018 16:47:59 GMT 1
But for my understanding: what will be implemented now? ( To my opinion those changes should be made incremental and slow not to have to much short-term impact. Or otherwise I guess some teamleaders need compensation.)
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Post by seberla on Nov 18, 2018 10:49:09 GMT 1
I really like the idea of the new training formula. But you have to implement the new formula for new riders only (you also have to announce it some seasons ago because "old" 18, 19yo riders might have a disadvantage, at least in the first years of their career) or you have to adapt the training formula for existing riders (depending on their age). It's not acceptable that you just change it. Some managers (including me) trained riders for around 10 seasons (or ~3 years). I would be unfair if those riders suddently train far slower than expect...
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Post by pollyjean on Nov 18, 2018 13:47:22 GMT 1
Completely true
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Post by Schizm on Nov 18, 2018 20:25:36 GMT 1
Seems I did not make it comletley clear that there are no plans to implement the new formula's until someone comes up with a strategy which is honest and will fulfill the needs of all active managers (or atleast 95 %).
Problems like : - the lost generation (is not solved by a gradual introduction, it will just get postponed) - if we do wa conversion the wage problem (and preferably without the ghost of compensations which are almost always unfair to some) - ... need to bn solved first.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Nov 20, 2018 13:14:44 GMT 1
Dear Managers, Schizm, El Gringo and I are already talking for a while about a new training formula. As it is now, a lot of cyclists are kind of useless between the age of 22 and about 30. Simply because their training distance compared to fully trained older riders is too high. We already had a short discussion on the forum in the thread: Game improvements during the season updateWe want to discuss this topic more in detail with you. We want to change something because it isn't good to have cyclists which you can hardly use but cost a lot of money. But the consequences are huge. It is possible to change this in the code but it does mean that a lot of cyclists will be useless immediately. Here are a few consequences. 1. Cyclists between approx. 27 and 32 haven't had the faster training, are still a lot weaker than older cyclists and will not improve anymore but start decreasing. There are managers who invested a lot of money and a lot of seasons on these kind of cyclists. These managers lose everything. 2. Existing cyclists under 27 will only gain skills faster much shorter time than new cyclists, this means that in a few seasons, when the first 18 years old with the new formula are well developed, these cyclists will also be useless. 3. Transfermarket will be overstressed when the first 18 yo in the new formula come on the market. The richest teams take them all. Pleas feel free to add more consequences. Possible ways to implement this new training formula are: 1. Start all over, from scratch. Everybody starts with a new team on the same level (division 4). Pro: everybody starts with the same starting points like money and number of cyclists. Con: very unfair for the managers who carefully trained their teams for a lot of years and seasons and are almost ready to finally taste the success of that. 2. Next week season 22 will start. We can, for instance, say that we will introduce this system in season 30, so everybody has enough time to adapt. Pro: fair to the managers mentioned under 1. Con: If you have improvements, you want to implement it as fast as possible and it means that managers don't know what the do as of now with new young talent. Training them from no one is useless since they will never be competitive (except for the U21 races). The game will end up in a vacuum for a lot of managers which probably will lose interest in the game and quit. What we hop to achieve with this discussion is to find a solution for this. We want to implement, but we also understand that it isn't fair to a lot of managers implement it immediately. Therefore we ask your help. Think about solutions, but think them over. Who has the golden idea? MOD edit : Moved the part discussing the training speed in Game Improvements into this thread. You can find these (earlier) posts above.
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Post by Poekie on Nov 20, 2018 13:20:20 GMT 1
26 to 30, that is.
Anyway, isn't it possible to just slightly tweak the formula till you have (in 5 to 10 seasons) the desired result?
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