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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 11, 2018 12:29:22 GMT 1
Irritation modus on And again a very inexplicable report. Timm is in the first group after the first mountain attackpoint, and after the second, he is suddenly in group 3 with the highest mountain stat of all participating riders. Very strange. And bye bye chances. Irritation modus off
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Post by bosko on Oct 11, 2018 14:05:44 GMT 1
Irritation modus on And again a very inexplicable report. Timm is in the first group after the first mountain attackpoint, and after the second, he is suddenly in group 3 with the highest mountain stat of all participating riders. Very strange. And bye bye chances. Irritation modus off How about his sprint skill? It might have to do with a combination of attack point and mountain sprint in 1 part? I see Timm loses time on part 3, 14 and 24 (all attack point and mountain sprint), but not at part 27 (only mountain sprint).
Maybe the importance of sprint skill is doubled (once for attack point and once for sprint) in those parts? Then there's also the difference "pleased" vs "very happy". And off course the biggest timeloss was because of a fall...
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 11, 2018 14:27:46 GMT 1
Irritation modus on And again a very inexplicable report. Timm is in the first group after the first mountain attackpoint, and after the second, he is suddenly in group 3 with the highest mountain stat of all participating riders. Very strange. And bye bye chances. Irritation modus off How about his sprint skill? It might have to do with a combination of attack point and mountain sprint in 1 part? I see Timm loses time on part 3, 14 and 24 (all attack point and mountain sprint), but not at part 27 (only mountain sprint).
Maybe the importance of sprint skill is doubled (once for attack point and once for sprint) in those parts? Then there's also the difference "pleased" vs "very happy". And off course the biggest timeloss was because of a fall... I don't want to give away all the skills of Timm, but his sprint skill is >7. Not the best sprint skill, but if he has the best mountain skill, and his sprint skill is acceptabel, then I still think it is very, very stragen that he is in the first group after the first attackpoint (which is also mountain) and he isný after the second, which is exactly the same, 7 km and 7%. If the sprintskill is dominating over the mountainskill then I think A. that is wrong and B. then he should not be able to follow group 1 in the first attackpoint.
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Post by eboese on Oct 11, 2018 15:10:31 GMT 1
Possibly the duo attack bug again? I think Gunter Sloodts did not attack at point 1, but he did attack at point 2, so that could explain why Timm was able to hang on at point 1 and not at point 2.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 11, 2018 15:15:24 GMT 1
Possibly the duo attack bug again? I think Gunter Sloodts did not attack at point 1, but he did attack at point 2, so that could explain why Timm was able to hang on at point 1 and not at point 2. Yes, I deliberately did nit attack with Sloodts in part 1, due to the double attack bug. After part 1, Sloodts and Timm were not in the same group, but it could have been the reason.
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Post by bosko on Oct 11, 2018 15:54:31 GMT 1
Not the best sprint skill, but if he has the best mountain skill, and his sprint skill is acceptabel, then I still think it is very, very stragen that he is in the first group after the first attackpoint (which is also mountain) and he isný after the second, which is exactly the same, 7 km and 7%.
No, those parts aren't 100% the same. They have the same length and precentage, but the first attack point (part 2) has only an attack point, the second (part 3) has an attack point AND a mountain sprint in the end. So maybe the importance of the sprint skill is doubled at part 3. Possibly the duo attack bug again? I think Gunter Sloodts did not attack at point 1, but he did attack at point 2, so that could explain why Timm was able to hang on at point 1 and not at point 2. Timm also lost time in parts 14 and 24. Those are also mountain parts with an attack point AND a mountain sprint and they couldn't have anything to do with the duo attack bug (especially because there wasn't a double attack). Off course you don't need to give the skills. We can speak hypothetically. The 2 other cyclists can for example have 2 skill points less on mountain and 2 skill points more on sprint. Because of their mood, the difference on mountain becomes smaller and the difference in sprint more. And than I think the mountain sprint makes the sprint skill even more important at those parts.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 11, 2018 16:13:07 GMT 1
Not the best sprint skill, but if he has the best mountain skill, and his sprint skill is acceptabel, then I still think it is very, very stragen that he is in the first group after the first attackpoint (which is also mountain) and he isný after the second, which is exactly the same, 7 km and 7%.
No, those parts aren't 100% the same. They have the same length and precentage, but the first attack point (part 2) has only an attack point, the second (part 3) has an attack point AND a mountain sprint in the end. So maybe the importance of the sprint skill is doubled at part 3. Possibly the duo attack bug again? I think Gunter Sloodts did not attack at point 1, but he did attack at point 2, so that could explain why Timm was able to hang on at point 1 and not at point 2. Timm also lost time in parts 14 and 24. Those are also mountain parts with an attack point AND a mountain sprint and they couldn't have anything to do with the duo attack bug (especially because there wasn't a double attack). Off course you don't need to give the skills. We can speak hypothetically. The 2 other cyclists can for example have 2 skill points less on mountain and 2 skill points more on sprint. Because of their mood, the difference on mountain becomes smaller and the difference in sprint more. And than I think the mountain sprint makes the sprint skill even more important at those parts. Bosko, I don't want to be rude, but it is irrelevant wheter he wins ore loses time later. It is just about comparing two exact equal parts. Two mountain attackpoints of 7 km with 7%. On the first he can follow on the second, he can't. If hypothetically (and I can follow your theory) what you say is true, why can he follow in AP 1 then? Acoording to the race report, when getting to the mountain sprint, Köster and Saloio where already with the two of them. Again, all that happens afterwards is irrellevant for that question.
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Post by Schizm on Oct 11, 2018 17:52:15 GMT 1
You are both right , sprint has a bigger influence when points for the polka dot (and the green) jersey can be won. So the sections are not completely equal, but the biggest difference probably is due to the double attack ( bosko : because a attack isnt mentioned in the report doesnt mean that it did not happen (f.i. when everybody in a group attacks it almost always won't be mentioned). I already set up a funrace to test the double attack influence.
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Post by bosko on Oct 12, 2018 8:43:33 GMT 1
Bosko, I don't want to be rude, but it is irrelevant wheter he wins ore loses time later. It is just about comparing two exact equal parts. Two mountain attackpoints of 7 km with 7%. On the first he can follow on the second, he can't.
If hypothetically (and I can follow your theory) what you say is true, why can he follow in AP 1 then? Acoording to the race report, when getting to the mountain sprint, Köster and Saloio where already with the two of them.
Again, all that happens afterwards is irrellevant for that question.
No problem, not rude at all. I just think the later parts are relevant, because they show that Timm loses time at EVERY mountain part with both attack point and mountain sprint, not only at the second attack. Why he can follow the first part and not the second: It's hard to explain, because I don't know how the engine exactly works. But when I speak hypothetically: Cyclist 1: MO 18; SP 8 Cyclist 2: MO 16; SP 10 At a part with an attack point, I say for example the sprint skill is used for the attack, the mountain skill for the terraintype. Just to have I number, I'll say the average strength of cyclist 1 = (8+18)/2 = 13; the strength of cyclist 2 = (10+16)/2 = 13. They stick together. At a part with an attack point and a mountain sprint, the sprint skill is used for the attack, the mountain skill for the terraintype and again the sprint skill for the mountain sprint. Then I would say the average strength of cyclist 1 = (8+18+8)/3 = 11.33; the strength of cyclist 2 = (10+16+10)/3 = 12. There is a difference, so a small gap can be created. I'm sure the calculation is much more complex, but I'm just trying to prove it can be a possibility he can follow at the first, but not at the second attack.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 13, 2018 23:01:44 GMT 1
Raul, congratulations on the well deserved victory. I had a nice Tour with an exciting battle for the yellow. Your team dedication in the TTT made the difference. Well done!
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[21] 1.1
Oct 14, 2018 13:26:24 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by raul on Oct 14, 2018 13:26:24 GMT 1
Thx, never expected bossuroy could go for Victory. I saw sloodts won last season tour the France in 2nd. Div. Luckily for me less mountain in this tour. Nice battle indeed:-)
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Post by heppie on Oct 14, 2018 21:36:21 GMT 1
Standings after week 11 Nr |
| Ploeg | GR | TT | PT | BT | Punten | % total pts |
| Pts. wk. | % pts. wk. | Rang wk. | Rang diff |
| stage wk |
---|
1 |
| Op kop de sloot in | 18 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 3525 | 17,36 |
| 249 | 14,00 | 4 | 0 |
| 1 | 2 |
| BeterLaatDanNooit | 20 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3380 | 16,65 |
| 154 | 8,66 | 5 | 0 |
| 1 | 3 |
| De Droeftoeters | 15 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 2999 | 14,77 |
| 303 | 17,04 | 2 | 0 |
| 3 | 4 |
| De Kasseienstoempers | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 2524 | 12,43 |
| 308 | 17,32 | 1 | 0 |
| 0 | 5 |
| WC Bloedzak | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1667 | 8,21 |
| 90 | 5,06 | 8 | 0 |
| 0 | 6 |
| Tossboom | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1538 | 7,58 |
| 41 | 2,31 | 10 | 0 |
| 0 | 7 |
| Gonzalez | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1246 | 6,14 |
| 283 | 15,92 | 3 | 0 |
| 1 | 8 |
| En Danseuse | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1013 | 4,99 |
| 98 | 5,51 | 7 | 0 |
| 0 | 9 |
| The Mothers of Invention | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 963 | 4,74 |
| 136 | 7,65 | 6 | 0 |
| 0 | 10 |
| Joanteam | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 507 | 2,50 |
| 34 | 1,91 | 12 | 0 |
| 0 | 11 |
| Melres United | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 471 | 2,32 |
| 35 | 1,97 | 11 | 0 |
| 0 | 12 |
| Thors Thunder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 469 | 2,31 |
| 47 | 2,64 | 9 | 0 |
| 0 |
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Post by heppie on Oct 21, 2018 21:27:56 GMT 1
Standings after 75% (12 weeks) Nr |
| Ploeg | GR | TT | PT | BT | Punten | % total pts |
| Pts. wk. | % pts. wk. | Rang wk. | Rang diff |
| stage wk |
---|
1 |
| Op kop de sloot in | 21 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 3996 | 18,10 |
| 471 | 26,49 | 1 | 0 |
| 3 | 2 |
| BeterLaatDanNooit | 22 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3712 | 16,81 |
| 332 | 18,67 | 2 | 0 |
| 2 | 3 |
| De Droeftoeters | 16 | 0 | 0 | 7 | 3251 | 14,72 |
| 252 | 14,17 | 4 | 0 |
| 1 | 4 |
| De Kasseienstoempers | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 2687 | 12,17 |
| 163 | 9,17 | 5 | 0 |
| 0 | 5 |
| WC Bloedzak | 3 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 1934 | 8,76 |
| 267 | 15,02 | 3 | 0 |
| 0 | 6 |
| Tossboom | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1625 | 7,36 |
| 87 | 4,89 | 7 | 0 |
| 0 | 7 |
| Gonzalez | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1246 | 5,64 |
| 0 | 0,00 | 12 | 0 |
| 0 | 8 |
| En Danseuse | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1112 | 5,04 |
| 99 | 5,57 | 6 | 0 |
| 0 | 9 |
| The Mothers of Invention | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1011 | 4,58 |
| 48 | 2,70 | 8 | 0 |
| 0 | 10 |
| Joanteam | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 527 | 2,39 |
| 20 | 1,12 | 10 | 0 |
| 0 | 11 |
| Thors Thunder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 493 | 2,23 |
| 24 | 1,35 | 9 | 1 |
| 0 | 12 |
| Melres United | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 486 | 2,20 |
| 15 | 0,84 | 11 | -1 |
| 0 |
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Post by heppie on Oct 25, 2018 12:39:44 GMT 1
Two stages in the youngster tour and two injuries Luckily the youngster tour lasts only three days...
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Post by Ab Normaal on Oct 25, 2018 12:59:29 GMT 1
That sucks. Was it a scheduled attacker? Then it is worse than just peloton filling.
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