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Post by chakra on Jul 28, 2018 19:56:00 GMT 1
Why keeping the fitness opportunity?
It makes it almost if not completely impossible for teams without fitness trainers to win TdF, Giro or Vuelta that are spread out over 3 or even 4 weeks.
It ruins the game.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jul 28, 2018 20:11:42 GMT 1
Not completely true. I won in 2.1 the TdF without fitness trainer against Lamego with fitness trainer and two fitness updates. So it can be done.
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Post by evild on Jul 28, 2018 21:49:17 GMT 1
True, i did too in the past. Last season even in 1.1 (vuelta) But i have to admit as well, its a worthless addition to this game IMO
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Post by wheelnut on Jul 29, 2018 8:30:02 GMT 1
surely with the rules change around fitness training it is not worth it?
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Post by heppie on Jul 29, 2018 11:30:15 GMT 1
Well, although I never trained fitness myself I'm not totally against the option. I think it gives some extra tactical options that one might or might not chose to use. Of course the advantage is more fitness to use and especially in the big tours this can be important. Note also that in this calendar there are only 2 small tours with update and there is some variation for the big tours: 1 update for the Tour, 2 for the Giro and 3 for the Vuelta. This to give both fitness and non-fitness training teams chances.
On the other hand, training fitness is not only an advantage. Especially after the rule change (which was good in my opinion). Cyclist are more prone to get injured, they don't get better but even lose a bit in some skill. And there is also the cost for the trainer to have fitness on a reasonable level before it makes sense.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Jul 29, 2018 12:51:16 GMT 1
Well, although I never trained fitness myself I'm not totally against the option. I think it gives some extra tactical options that one might or might not chose to use. Of course the advantage is more fitness to use and especially in the big tours this can be important. Note also that in this calendar there are only 2 small tours with update and there is some variation for the big tours: 1 update for the Tour, 2 for the Giro and 3 for the Vuelta. This to give both fitness and non-fitness training teams chances. On the other hand, training fitness is not only an advantage. Especially after the rule change (which was good in my opinion). Cyclist are more prone to get injured, they don't get better but even lose a bit in some skill. And there is also the cost for the trainer to have fitness on a reasonable level before it makes sense. +1 I have exactly the same opinion.
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Post by wheelnut on Jul 30, 2018 18:17:58 GMT 1
ok so you lose skills and possible injury. I assumed once the rule change was done nobody would bother with it but I guess if you are desperate to compete in the big tours then it maybe worth it? I normally grab stages or possible go for a minor jersey so have not entertained it. I might look at it again now!
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Post by chakra on Aug 4, 2018 12:18:50 GMT 1
I think most of the teams using fitness trainer don't care about the cost. It's more the fun to win a tour, a big one or not, the financial benefit, the amount of supps are more positive view than the weekly cost. The decrease in skill or proneness of injuries is too little to hurt them. So a few teams succeeded to win the Tdf, Giro, or Vuelta without fitness. I'm sure there are more teams with fitness who win these tours. IMO the fitness should be banned for cyclists competing a tour. Fitness after or before the tour. Lesser prob with that. ;-)
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Post by Mike on Aug 12, 2018 16:26:04 GMT 1
Fitness = epo
get rid of it, it sucks
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Post by Schizm on Aug 13, 2018 10:10:50 GMT 1
Totally not in favour deleting a tactical option (Short term vs. Long term strategy).
What I am in favour off although only a bit related to fitnesstraining is a cap on total skillpoints for the trainer, 75 for instance (or even 60).
Why ? - it is not realistic to have a trainer who is prefect on every skill - we lessen the chance managers hire trainers they can not afford - It encourages to make choices, if you choose a 20 fitness trainer, you will have less options on other skills
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Post by Mike on Aug 13, 2018 12:29:10 GMT 1
I don't see it a a tactical option; it's simply a way to cheat. Giving a rider more oxigen than a normal rider would have.
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Post by vazilii on Aug 13, 2018 20:16:55 GMT 1
Yes Mike I feel the same about fitness trainer. I don't like it one bit. But others see it as a tactical option, like Schizm said. Not sure really. That short term tactic can be used long term when the pize money insures the buy of new veterans to be fitness trained again. Oh well
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Post by Stinus1986 on Aug 14, 2018 9:18:40 GMT 1
In what way is a fitness trainer cheating, if it is allowed by the rules?
Fitness is a very important factor for deciding your tactics, so the ability to train is a vital part of the game. Banning it for cyclist competing in a tour, is however not a bad idea and makes sense.
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