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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 16:02:52 GMT 1
My point is The young scout is generally very expensive, you agree with me in this point? You have, not a good or a decent, but a functional young scout(10-10-12), you have 20 victories this season, and yet, you say: "2. I cannot afford a better scout. Plus i have an old team. When i will change my generations probably i will have a 10 15 10 or 10 15 15."I had a scout in the last six season, my team is a very young team, and i can guarantee you that 70% or more of the young cyclists that i had were sold, because simply they weren't good enough, some can win u21 races but after that, the progression is very slow or none. In 6 seasons of this strategy, in the moment i only have 5 young cyclists with more than 20 years old, which I consider to have potential to be in top 100 cyclists in the game in a few years. The fact is, in this point of the game, the youngscout is not part of any solution, because the ratio salary vs good young cyclists. I will continue to have a youngscout not because I think it's worth it but because i like to play this way And i hope that in the future this problem will be improved some way
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Post by rarau on Feb 14, 2017 17:16:41 GMT 1
Young scout is expensive when you buy him.
In last 2 seasons because of Genomico and Slayer the price of 18y cyclists is very good (1.000.000 - 2.000.000 per cyclist) Last 2 seasons for me was very good on selling youngsters. Last season was extremly good, now fifty fifty .
If you sell in first 4 weeks 18y cyclists the prices are very good. In the last part of the season the prices are not so good anymore.
The problem is that all we want only steering and balance 15 or more and that is impossible now.
Franconia scout
Current ability 15 Steering/Balance 20 Perception 19 wage 400.000
Genomico
Current ability 18 Steering/Balance 18 Perception 16
wage 300.000
i cannot afford because my sponsor give me only 34.000 my cyclists wage is 500.000 and raising staff is 270.000
so if now i have only under 24 cyclists i could afford a scout like Genomico and Franconia.
schzim have
Current ability 15 Steering/Balance 15 Perception 15
wage 150.000 i think anyone could afford a scout like this.
My problem is that my training plans are FULL, i cannot train amymore cyclists if i dont sell some cyclists.
I have that scout because that scout give me per season some cash. With a better scout io could lost some money
i dont see any problems with youngsters, are enough scouts and youngsters. Problems with scouts/youngsters was 3-4 seasons ago when probably was only 10 users with scout (with me)
some can win u21 races but after that, the progression is very slow or none.
train one skill like user Evcont and some other do and not 5 skills. In my opinnion good skills for train for a cyclist betwwen 18 and 24 are mountain, hill, flat. TT and sprint are good for train, in my opinnion, later.
If you train a skill, for example, hill ... if you see that from 7 to 8 hill cyclists raise very difficult then sell him or train him something else.
and so on ...
Malton, Puscasu and others like them are very rarely. for example i have only 3 cyclists with flat 13 or better on mountain also only 3 cyclists with mountain 13 or better
on hill only one with 8 or better hill but i have 15 with hill 6 or better
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Post by Schizm on Feb 14, 2017 17:51:45 GMT 1
@ Phanom : So you are in my division ? I must say I was very surprised I could get this many points in 3rd division, because I only have 2 competitive cyclists (Masek, top notch and Avila, who is/was very mediocre in top divisions) all the others are own youthpulls (from my 15-15-15 scout in the last 3 seasons). I admit I spend some money on those two but that is mainly because they also have high leadership.
I don't want to offend anyone but my feeling is that the only reasons other teams ('unintentionally') finish behind me is that they are either uninterested or unaware of how to play this game competitively. Unintentionally => are solely on a long term strategy which may or may not include a deliberate demotion to a lower division.
Regarding the economics , i see your point I lose money almost every week, but that is mainly because of my scout. If it wasnt for him I would more or less break-even. If I could help it, more money from sponsors and less from pricemoney, would be one of the aspects that would be improved.
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Post by Mike on Feb 14, 2017 20:05:52 GMT 1
In a game, money should never be a problem. That's a golden rule if you want a game to be succesfull, one that has more new players than leavers.
In peloton that is exactly what is wrong with the game.
OK, it's a manager-game, I know. But look at every other manager game: no problems there. Only problem in other manager-games is that you would spend to mutch in the beginning of the game because you don't know better, but aside from the beginning you never have problems. It's quite different in peloton.
conclusion: not enough sponsor money, not enough prize money (exspecially when you end up 5th and lower-) and it costs way to much for youth-scout.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Feb 14, 2017 22:44:22 GMT 1
In a game, money should never be a problem. That's a golden rule if you want a game to be succesfull, one that has more new players than leavers. In peloton that is exactly what is wrong with the game. OK, it's a manager-game, I know. But look at every other manager game: no problems there. Only problem in other manager-games is that you would spend to mutch in the beginning of the game because you don't know better, but aside from the beginning you never have problems. It's quite different in peloton. conclusion: not enough sponsor money, not enough prize money (exspecially when you end up 5th and lower-) and it costs way to much for youth-scout. Totally disagree. OCM is also always a money thing. If you have unlimited money it is always easy. That's what is important in a managers game. Decide what you are goong to do with your money because you simply can't do it all. Just like in real life.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 17:01:17 GMT 1
I agree with you when you say : "OCM is also always a money thing" The key word is "also", the problem is, for many teams the "also" have been transform in "always"
so for these teams the correct sentence "OCM is always always a money thing"
"If you have unlimited money it is always easy."
Nobody in this thread have talked about unlimited money, you are the first. Nobody have interested in talk about unlimited money, because it's obviously, and i agree with you, is a stupid idea.
"That's what is important in a managers game. Decide what you are goong to do with your money because you simply can't do it all"
In this part i'm totaly agree with you, but once again the problem is, some teams don't have many options because or have a competitive team and struggle to survive financially, or have a good financial situation and have a not competitive team. In this situation play this game is not great experience.
"Just like in real life."
This is a common argument that some players use to prove their points. For me this is a very weak argument, when used in anything associated with this game. This game have so many estrutural things that not work in same way in real life, that criticize a simple financial adjustment in the game, which will not change anything structural, based on this argument, is at least a bit hypocritical.
I cannot see the necessity of a realistic game, i only want a fun game to play.
P.S: my financial situation in this game, is in this moment very very stable;
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Post by Mike on Feb 15, 2017 20:21:38 GMT 1
youve got a point there...
I want to enjoy the game like any other guy. But the narrow income in this game is a killer for 70% of the players.
And by the way, my financial situation is also more then ok
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Post by evild on Feb 16, 2017 19:57:16 GMT 1
The income is idd a problem in this game. Its very hard to survive if you are not in the top 5 of your division and win races on regulary base. But i think the problem is somewhere else. Why do cyclists get better and better untill they are 36? Make them trainable until 30-32, and let them slowly decrease skils after that . You can never close the gap with the top teams. And when their time is over, the new generation who bought and trained the best youngsters, take over for some seasons until the circle closes again.
and rarau, explain me please cause im not fully understanding your posts and advice when i look at your team:-$ Why do you give your old cyclists fitness training when you have 60 (!) mainly young riders in your team? What kind of training plan is that? It seems to me that you just try to gain as much money as possible to survive
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Post by chakra on Feb 18, 2017 0:32:55 GMT 1
Whether skills drop from 30-32 or from 35 is exact the same. Skill drop from 30-32 just replaces the problem. Cyclists would never be able to reach higher (14-15+)skills and be more or less all round. (all skills 7). Sorry Vrooom ;-)
Money is a big problem in this game. Idd in almost any Div the top 2 to 5 crush the other teams. And they will leave the game to never come back. A in my Div (3:1) the top BJA cycling and c@aisse almost win everything and good top places in the stageresults. Raising the stagemoney wouldn't solve this topic. Unless the pricemoney is raised for the places 5 to 20. Good point of Mike. (+1) So to keep the game alive, income must increase for all teams. So any team can survive the game.
On the other hand, idd you can't do it all. But the main goal of the game is trying to be the best. And this can only be reached by being succesfull in stages and having a decent trainer (multiskilled). A youth scout is with the upgrading of the U21 stages is almost necessary (even a must) to remain competitive in the Div rankings. And yes it is a management game. But sometimes I think it's a mathematical game for one who can handle a worksheet, or a database. And it should be a fun game for everyone.
Why not giving a pricemoney for a Youth Jersey too? Or perhaps for a Team Jersey?
Or at the end of the season not only the best ranked cyclist but pricemoney for the top 10?
Lowering the cost of a trainee could be resolving the situation too.
I myself have a YS for about 24 weeks. And it resulted in 1 pull every 3 or 4 weeks. With a perception of 8. It seems to be good. And about FA. There are 2 of them with a FA in flat. One reached 8 in 5 weeks. The other will probably (and hopefully) in 6 weeks. My finances...decreases every week with approx 150K.
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Post by rarau on Feb 18, 2017 9:56:39 GMT 1
Why not giving a pricemoney for a Youth Jersey too?
very good idea.
What about this?
U21 races to receive more money then normal races? and to be the same amount in all divisions for U21
For example now on U21 race on div 3 we receive 48.000 $ what it be if we receive for example 100.000 $ in all divisions?
Then we know who is a better tactician.
But what's your opinion? People with very good scout or money could have too big advantages?
p.s. if will be a change like this to be not next season but the season after next season and to be announced from time.
General problem with money -> maybe much money from sponsor? now for example i receive 33.437 every week from my sponsor
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Post by wheelnut on Mar 8, 2017 19:32:46 GMT 1
Money is too tight...I play Battrick, Hattrick etc where money is not unlimited but does allow some freedom to play in different ways. I am one of those getting hammered in division 3 and totally agree with the OP.
I considered being relegated on purpose to div 4 but that is surely not the point of the game?
Things do not have to as tight as they are!
It builds super dominating teams and loads of teams disheartened like me and the OP hence loads of leavers.
Prize money for the white youth jersey is an excellent idea; why is this not the case already? Gives another option to make money.
Greater prize money for lower positions must be a given too.
I nearly went bankrupt this season and although I made a few minor mistakes, nothing that should of caused me going under.
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Post by chakra on Mar 9, 2017 15:29:40 GMT 1
Increase price money for U21 stages: NO, I'm against it.
Price money for youngster jersey and perhaps Team Jersey? YES.
Another thing to maintain the prices is to get rid of the diminuation of the price money in case less than 70% of the teams enlist for a stage.
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Post by Ab Normaal on Mar 9, 2017 15:37:51 GMT 1
Increase price money for U21 stages: NO, I'm against it. Price money for youngster jersey and perhaps Team Jersey? YES. Another thing to maintain the prices is to get rid of the diminuation of the price money in case less than 70% of the teams enlist for a stage.Agree with you on all points except for prize money for the Team Yersey. The team that wins the team jersey has Always a lot of cyclists high in the GC and therefor a lot of price money for that already. I would like to see an increase of sponsor money and I don't see why you have to pay so much signing money for a trainer and scout. The wage is fine, but the signing money is absurd.
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Post by rarau on Mar 9, 2017 16:18:20 GMT 1
Increase price money for U21 stages: NO, I'm against it. why? now teams from 1.1 win more money on U21 races then teams from div 2/3/4 and then they could buy better youngsters and so on. I think is better that win a stage on U21 on no matter division to be rewarded with 100.000 And if you could win more money on U21 then the price of young will be better
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Post by chakra on Mar 13, 2017 15:51:17 GMT 1
If pricemoney is the same for all U21 in all Div. I can live with that. Your arguments are good.
Signmoney for trainer and YS indeed: why is that so high?
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