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Post by bam on Apr 30, 2016 9:26:17 GMT 1
Personally, I don't mind when old teams are reactivated. I want many players in the game, and if this can help for that, I'm totally supporting it. And actually, I even think I may not have an opinion on it, because if the ones ( Schizm , ElGringo ) who manage the game (voluntary!) decide that it is allowed, then it is allowed. What I think is more interesting, is the discussion about the price of a youngster. I'm having a youthscout for quite some seasons now, so I will do some calculations based on the history of my pulls with this scout (I saved all data): My scout is a 0-14-14, wage is 80740. From the history, it followed that my scout found a cyclist in 41.93548% of the cases, whereas 60.16129% was expected (the training of perception was taken into account for this, therefore it is lower than 70%). I assume that my scout is not so good on this part, so I take a "performance ratio" of 41.93648/60.16129 = 0.697051. Take a season to be 16 weeks, then I now expect to find the following number of cyclists in 1 season: 0.697051*0.7*16=7.806971. However, only part of the cyclists have real value for me. In my case , I don't want 19 year olds (and many with me, I think). The history of my scout learns me that 46.15385% of the cyclists are 18. This gives the following amount of cyclists per season that have a chance to stay based on their age: 7.806971*0.4615385=3.603217. Still, I will not keep all these cyclists. Usually I want cyclists to have at least 5 on both steering and balance. Of course I do make exceptions, but I also sometimes sell cyclists who do meet this requirement (based on a heigh weight combined with a high mountain skill, for example), so in the end I think I can use just the "5/5 requirement". Taking the history of my scout again, I find that 53.84615% of my pulls meet this requirement. So this gives me 3.603217*0.5384615=1.940194 cyclists per season who have value for me, the rest I see as waste. Wage of the scout is 80740, 16 weeks in a season, so total costs per season are 16*80740=1291840. Spread over 1.940194 cyclists gives me my price per cyclist: 1291840/1.940194= $665830. This would then be the normal price for an 18-yo cyclist with at least 5 on steering and balance. However, I think that cyclists are worth more in the beginning of the season than in the end, and the skills in combination with length and weight can also add some personal value, just as really good secundaries. Also, I have the scout especially for myself and normally do not sell pulls I like. Therefore it is in my opinion not strange that 1 million is paid for a decent 18-yo and 2 million for a better one, because there are not many of them on the market. For example, I won't have sold that 2-million cyclist. I think 3 million was pretty much for that (according to me) not very special cyclist, but it was the result of a bidwar between 2 teams, so also not unfair. So, I agree it are good prices, but they are not unfair in my eyes.
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roller
Amateur Team
Posts: 123
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Post by roller on Apr 30, 2016 9:36:33 GMT 1
Ok, Here's my reaction. First of all, I must have stumbled on this issue because all other accounts you have summed up did not catch my interest I guess. I had no info about other teams getting there old team back. Said that, my opinion is: quit the game whenever you want. Come back to the game is start a new team. 'No way around it!' A simple and very logic rule that should be for everyone. +1 If other had the team back then there are more unfair decisions than only the last one. So more errors. I don't know if i'll quit or not. Probably lot or Bene(-lux) player'll be happy about it... Surely I'll never ever pay 1cent for the game (and I have paid the useless premium since the start). Good luck to all player with illegal team, Have fun with your really deserved victories!
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Post by Ab Normaal on Apr 30, 2016 13:37:59 GMT 1
Roller, I am sorry, but you can't deny that now a few Italian teams are now complaining only because Genomico is a Dutch manager. When Serti was reinstalled there wherea lot of cyclists sold overpriced between Italian teams. And off course, then you did not complain. Like Schizm says, also not when other teams got re-installed, but now that it is a Dutch team...
Do you deny that he got that money fair?
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Post by angelogik on Apr 30, 2016 14:51:28 GMT 1
how good you are to turn the discussion when you feel in difficulty; what does serti in question? I talk to him in person a few times, it was not my friend nor I have ever had pleasure from him, if you have restored the account you were the ones you have wrong, I do not care; Genomic continues to be wrong as it has often been in the first part of the restart of the peloton, I see that, as usual, does not want to do nothing, I tell you that is also why several managers have left and do not add more, I would never advertise in the peloton which allows some characters or buddies to cheat if managers have a duplicate account and trade cyclists at inflated prices you operate ban? for inflated prices of genomic do nothing? keep it up ...
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Post by angelogik on Apr 30, 2016 15:03:58 GMT 1
Roller, I am sorry, but you can't deny that now a few Italian teams are now complaining only because Genomico is a Dutch manager. When Serti was reinstalled there wherea lot of cyclists sold overpriced between Italian teams. And off course, then you did not complain. Like Schizm says, also not when other teams got re-installed, but now that it is a Dutch team... Do you deny that he got that money fair? Show what you say or shut up because you're just trying to confusion; also if serti had sold cyclists and had deleted the account soon after, would only lost money, certainly not favoritism
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Post by Ab Normaal on Apr 30, 2016 15:40:25 GMT 1
I have absolutely no clue what you mean, sorry.
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roller
Amateur Team
Posts: 123
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Post by roller on Apr 30, 2016 17:33:55 GMT 1
Roller, I am sorry, but you can't deny that now a few Italian teams are now complaining only because Genomico is a Dutch manager. When Serti was reinstalled there wherea lot of cyclists sold overpriced between Italian teams. And off course, then you did not complain. Like Schizm says, also not when other teams got re-installed, but now that it is a Dutch team... Do you deny that he got that money fair? 1) You are not sorry. 2) Serti and other (dutch-belgium included) had their team back? I didn't notice it, my bad. I think it was and is wrong. And 2 or more wrong decision don't make a good one... 3) I think that you are trying to put the light on me and on others teams restarted in the past and not on the problem itself that is an unfair restart of a team closed two years ago. 4) Answearing your finally questionn: Getting his money back is unfair! He lost it with his account by not logging in for more than 1 month.
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Post by Schizm on Apr 30, 2016 20:04:32 GMT 1
how good you are to turn the discussion when you feel in difficulty; what does serti in question? I talk to him in person a few times, it was not my friend nor I have ever had pleasure from him, if you have restored the account you were the ones you have wrong, I do not care; Genomic continues to be wrong as it has often been in the first part of the restart of the peloton, I see that, as usual, does not want to do nothing, I tell you that is also why several managers have left and do not add more, I would never advertise in the peloton which allows some characters or buddies to cheat if managers have a duplicate account and trade cyclists at inflated prices you operate ban? for inflated prices of genomic do nothing? keep it up ... There hasnt been a ban in ages , since the early days when Nikeboy became a gamemod, IP sent him a message he had to avoid that by any means. Only financial repercussions were taken. You clearly just made an assumption. As far as I know inflated prices caused by a bidwar by two clearly different managers are no reason for such a repercussion. I followed that italian 'pelotiani' forum a while and clearly many of the regular visitors there, where awear of serti 's plan. And I dont really even mind what he did, if it wasn't for the fact that he made ElGringo believe he really had the intention to restart his playing ways. Remains the fact that some are strongely opposed to teams restarting. Can't really blame them I had some reservations myself. I only restored one team myself (an italian team, if you read the italian part of the peloton forum you should have been awear of which one), so I have to talk to ElGringo about the consequences. because if we turn this back, in my opinion every other case have to be turned back (no favouritism remember). It is not because the tallest trees catch the most wind we should limit this to one or two teams. about thing that happened in the early seasons of v2, Nikeboy was the gamemod in those days and I have the fullest confidence that he examined every case and took meassures when he felt they where necesseary. It is clear to me that you, like a lot of other italian managers, have personal issues with Genomico (and some other succesfull dutch managers). Look I am no friend of Genomico, I even remember me cheering back in the days, when he took one of his few unexpected losses or if I could cross his plans, but he always had my respect, so I really don't get all the hatred (is this only because they outsmarted most of us ?) edit : fixed some annoying typo's
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Post by angelogik on Apr 30, 2016 22:47:37 GMT 1
Schizm, not about hated of genomic (and his friends), the problem is that [MOD mode : Erased this part], so it is ... in the peloton there was someone who invited me to partecipate in pelotoniani but in essence I never made an active part of the group, did not have "friends" there, because a friend is a different thing ... regarding nikeboy, i did not know he was the officer to examine segnalations, now understand why immediately took downsizing measures regarding MY reporting of a my sale of time ago, by +6.000.000 to 40.000, because it was in my group, while for all the other abuses reported he did nothing, okay, I get it all ...
[MOD mode : removed a part for breaking forum policy, I only just made a reference to the forum rules, still you go on and on]
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Post by Schizm on May 2, 2016 8:29:51 GMT 1
If I understand correct now you doubt Nikeboy's judgement, well I don't, he and after he "quit" ElGringo are the reason peloton still exists. I dont say he was perfect, he is human like all of us so he could have made a mistake. Also after Nikeboy quit nobody really minded the shop it is only since a few months we started to check for untolerated behaviour again. And please explain me how can you know other teams where not punished, can you tell me how exactly did you check other teams finances ?
About the restarts, if ElGringo agrees I am prepared to do a poll about that. Problem is that would bring us in a difficult position because if I remember correctly about a year ago a mailing was sent to retired managers inviting them back with the promise they would get their old teams back.
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Post by Ab Normaal on May 2, 2016 9:11:11 GMT 1
If I understand correct now you doubt Nikeboy's judgement, well I don't, he and after he "quit" ElGringo are the reason peloton still exists. I dont say he was perfect, he is human like all of us so he could have made a mistake. Also after Nikeboy quit nobody really minded the shop it is only since a few months we started to check for untolerated behaviour again. And please explain me how can you know other teams where not punished, can you tell me how exactly did you check other teams finances ? About the restarts, if ElGringo agrees I am prepared to do a poll about that. Problem is that would bring us in a difficult position because if I remember correctly about a year ago a mailing was sent to retired managers inviting them back with the promise they would get their old teams back. Is it in the code that you loose your team after not logging in for a month? Is it possible to remove that, so that you can pick up where you left off, even if you haven't logged in for a year? Of course if you fired your trainer and scout so you aren't going bankrupt.
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Post by maxz on May 2, 2016 10:18:11 GMT 1
actually i don't see anything wrong, it was obvious genomico's return with EGV money would have an impact on 18yo prices... imo he is free to waste all the money he wants, decision to give his original team back was taken by mods and that's all. Genomico is a piece of history of this game so he deserved it, but it's normal that people will look at every step of his comeback with "curiosity"... No question about his rights to have his team back, we did it in the past, we have to do it now. so please friends stop whining... IT'S NOT an ita/ned fight, it's about 10 years we play the game togheter and IT WAS a fair competition... mods keep the game alive and i'm sure they are absolutely fair, I know if i was in genomico's shoes they will do exactly the same with me... or you.
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Post by Ab Normaal on May 2, 2016 10:52:36 GMT 1
actually i don't see anything wrong, it was obvious genomico's return with EGV money would have an impact on 18yo prices... imo he is free to waste all the money he wants, decision to give his original team back was taken by mods and that's all. Genomico is a piece of history of this game so he deserved it, but it's normal that people will look at every step of his comeback with "curiosity"... No question about his rights to have his team back, we did it in the past, we have to do it now. so please friends stop whining... IT'S NOT an ita/ned fight, it's about 10 years we play the game togheter and IT WAS a fair competition... mods keep the game alive and i'm sure they are absolutely fair, I know if i was in genomico's shoes they will do exactly the same with me... or you. Very wise words Maxz. For me it also has notjing to do with an Ita/Ned fight. I love Italy. Do a lot of business with Italians. I like the people, they are very friendly, it is an extremely beautiful country and your food is fantastic. The Italian community on Peloton was always big and very competitive. I hope it even grows and that we all keep playing and having fun of this fantastic game.
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Post by Mike on May 2, 2016 12:24:41 GMT 1
Ok, Here's my reaction. First of all, I must have stumbled on this issue because all other accounts you have summed up did not catch my interest I guess. I had no info about other teams getting there old team back. Said that, my opinion is: quit the game whenever you want. Come back to the game is start a new team. 'No way around it!' A simple and very logic rule that should be for everyone. I'll just repeat my reaction There is no way around it! Every other decision now or in the past that bends this rule is corrupt, end of story. clarification: the decision is corrupt, I'm not aiming on persons who decided this. I am also glad these mods put up all the effort they have done in the past and future, I am only asking not to bend simple rules.
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Post by angelogik on May 2, 2016 13:08:06 GMT 1
... And please explain me how can you know other teams where not punished, can you tell me how exactly did you check other teams finances ? ... I'm sorry that el gringo, you Schizm and others you feel responsible, you are not the problem, indeed go ahead too much not to kill peloton, the problem is those who cheat and continues to do so without restraint ... as regards economy of the teams is not possible for us to see them, but in the history of the teams, for both sellers and for buyers, in the history of transfers, if there is a reduction of the sums that reads the sum reduced ... I like this game simple simple but see it ruined by those who want cheat to his advantage or little friends do not like it ... I see that the issue is beginning to annoy someone, only those who have a clear conscience seeks to examine the problem, I will accept what you do, in good and bad, I think it is useless to continue ...
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