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Post by Schizm on Sept 7, 2014 11:42:13 GMT 1
I know there were some suggestions about raising the U21 age, but I was thinking that we should split up the U21 in a U21 and U23 section (two categories that exist in real cycling to).
Please let me know, what would you prefer ?
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Post by punkska on Sept 7, 2014 12:32:03 GMT 1
Either u23 or u24 in my opinion should definitely be a category yep. (but not as soon as next season! I sold off my good 20 year olds already as I figured they're useless  ) |
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Post by rarau on Sept 7, 2014 12:59:10 GMT 1
alongside U21 races would be nice (fifty/fifty)
I guess one tour/race a season wouldn't hurt.
both sounds good for me.
Maybe 5 U21 races and 2 U24 in the beginning (or maybe more)? Like punkska said users need to know in advance about this to keep/buy cyclists, if they want.
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Post by kurtinsc on Sept 7, 2014 13:28:25 GMT 1
I think that a good idea could be to increase the number of "Sprint Race". For example: 5 - only flat 2 - only hill 2 - only mountain 3 - only dhill (to help dhill trainer) 3 - MIX Total: 15 (total races in a season are about 90/95...15 is about 16%) imho 15 looks a bit to much in my opinion but , but I agree it could be at level with the ITT's , I was already planning to create a U21 sprint race for next season, so something like 2 (almost) completely flat, 2 flat/mix , 1 mountain, 1 hill, 1 downhill, 1 mix, 1 U21 (also mountain/hill/DH shouldn't be one skill imo because that isn't realistic) I know it is a bit unrelated , but another thing I am thinking of is suggesting the introducing of U23 races. I don't think having U23 is needed, but rather having the youth jersey in tours be U23, the youth jersey in GT's be U25 while the 1-day races stay as they are at U21. That gives you a progression for young riders so you want to keep them as they develop. First they fight the Espoirs races, then they fight for the white jersey in small tours, then they fight for the white jersey in GT's... and then they're a normal rider at 25. |
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Post by chakra on Sept 7, 2014 16:42:24 GMT 1
Why not keep it simple. Raise the U21 to U23 for all races and jerseys.
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Post by kurtinsc on Sept 7, 2014 16:50:37 GMT 1
Because it creates dead spots where you are training riders with no benefit.
Right now 18-20 year olds have value, but 21-25 year olds have little... because they haven't developed the stats yet to compete in most leagues.
By raising the U21 to U23, 20-22 year olds will be useful... but 18-19 year olds become useless.
If it's U21 in the junior 1-day races, U23 in the 3-4 stage races for the white jersey and U25 in the grand tours... they keep some use to your team as they advance. Less dead spots where you train a rider with absolutely no benefit.
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Post by Schizm on Sept 7, 2014 18:46:29 GMT 1
15 looks a bit to much in my opinion but , but I agree it could be at level with the ITT's , I was already planning to create a U21 sprint race for next season, so something like 2 (almost) completely flat, 2 flat/mix , 1 mountain, 1 hill, 1 downhill, 1 mix, 1 U21 (also mountain/hill/DH shouldn't be one skill imo because that isn't realistic) I know it is a bit unrelated , but another thing I am thinking of is suggesting the introducing of U23 races. I don't think having U23 is needed, but rather having the youth jersey in tours be U23, the youth jersey in GT's be U25 while the 1-day races stay as they are at U21. That gives you a progression for young riders so you want to keep them as they develop. First they fight the Espoirs races, then they fight for the white jersey in small tours, then they fight for the white jersey in GT's... and then they're a normal rider at 25. A pity I can not change the poll , this is an option I did not think of. Seperate U23 races are still my favourite, because if I am not mistaking no change to the code is necesseary for that (Why I think that ? Because you can already create those as a funrace). edit : To explain my argument somehow I have to make clear that I am a bit pessimistic. I don't think changes to the code will be performed at all. Atleast not in the near future. |
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Post by heppie on Sept 7, 2014 19:20:51 GMT 1
I don't think having U23 is needed, but rather having the youth jersey in tours be U23, the youth jersey in GT's be U25 while the 1-day races stay as they are at U21. +1 I don't think this is a very difficult change in the code. Especially if we make no distinction between GT and normal ones. |
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Post by Mike on Sept 7, 2014 20:58:57 GMT 1
all for U 23 races simply to make that age catagory more interesting.. they are indeed pretty useless otherwise
even u 25 would be ok
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Post by Ab Normaal on Sept 8, 2014 12:21:38 GMT 1
I like the idea of Kurtinsc.
If you simply take U23, then riders with age 18 - 21 aren't really competitive.
Just give more money and points for the U23 jersey and the problems are solved.
I have now 2 riders of 23 yo. I have trained them since they were 18 and I am convinced that they are the best 23 yo of the game, but they are still conpletely useless in division 1. They were usefull till they were 20.
The last two seasons, I have just trained them for the future. So U23 would have been nice for these cyclists.
So in my opnion, Kurinsc's idea is the best idea.
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Post by joachim1107 on Sept 8, 2014 12:55:42 GMT 1
I agree with that idea about U23 yersey in the tours and U21 single races. I notice i sell every year my 21 year olds and just buy new 18 year old cyclists.
I now bought some 21/22 year olds because my team is getting older but these cyclists are useless for the moment
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Post by Schizm on Sept 8, 2014 13:24:24 GMT 1
Well I agree the idea of Kurtinsc could be the most effective.
The only problem I see (with all these proposals) is that with the current engine in a few seasons we could be needing measures for U27 's and so on. In real (dopingfree) cycling the level of power is something like a parabola with the top somewhere between 27 and 29 years (I agree that this differs for individual cyclist), after that there is a (slow) decline in power which is compensated somehow in the first 3 to 5 years by a growing level of experience and (if trained properly) endurance.
I am no scientist numbers are based on my own opinion, somehow based on things I hear cyclist reporters say on TV.
But in Peloton even over 30 cyclists still gain in primary skill-levels (secondary skills should continue to grow !). So far I only noticed a small decline in how much they gain. And thereby increasing the age of the average top-level cyclist with one every season. In 5 seasons the 29 year olds will still be beaten by the then 32 year olds.
So if you change the code do it properly and solve this to.
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Post by Mike on Sept 9, 2014 6:59:49 GMT 1
Change the code? Who said anything like that?
This is about doing something about the useless youngsters once the passed the age of 20, nothing more and nothing less.
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