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Post by rarau on Sept 23, 2007 0:58:44 GMT 1
This standings are ok or not ? The results are very strange 1. Marraffino 0 0 4:35:08 Kelme Costa Blanca Eurosport 2. Pietropinto 0 2 +10:58  Kelme Costa Blanca Eurosport 3. Rahyer 0 0 +20:01 4. Besengez 0 2 +20:01 5. Valdes 1 0 +20:01 6. Caplain 1 0 +20:01 7. Puravet 0 0 +20:01 8. van der Want 0 1 +20:01 9. Prodan 0 0 +20:01 10. Bettaver 0 0 +20:01 11. Trelles 0 0 +20:01 12. Pedroza 0 0 +20:01 13. Geebelen 0 0 +20:01 14. Rossi 1 0 +21:05 15. Ene 1 0 +21:05 16. Grijze 0 0 +21:05 17. Vanoirbeek 0 0 +21:05 18. Bojin 0 0 +21:05 19. Dobos 0 0 +21:05 20. Rokos 0 0 +21:05 21. Tatarescu 0 0 +21:05 22. Dobre 0 0 +21:05 23. Silvrants 0 0 +21:05 24. Mondragon 0 0 +21:05 25. Saguna 0 0 +21:05 26. Baboescu 1 0 +21:05 27. Tere 0 0 +21:05 28. Bochinsky 0 0 +21:05 29. Stanasila 0 0 +21:05 30. De Luyck 1 0 +21:05 31. Vlas 0 0 +21:05 32. Georghiou 0 0 +21:05 33. Banciu 0 0 +21:05 34. Antonescu 0 0 +21:05 35. Tarangioli 1 0 +21:05 36. Stillemant 1 0 +21:05 37. Del Pozo Ramos 0 0 +21:05 38. Altamirano 0 0 +21:05 39. Radu 2 0 +21:05 40. Klanker 1 0 +21:05 41. Calangelo 0 0 +21:05 42. Knobloch 1 0 +21:05 43. Brasen 1 0 +21:05 44. Salvadore 0 1 +25:13 czw-team 45. Mahal 0 0 +25:13 DarkAngels 46. Lior 0 1 +25:13 Black_Cats 47. Langbein 0 0 +25:13 DarkAngels 48. Bockstael 1 0 +25:13 GSE 49. Boulianne 0 0 +25:13 GSE 50. Claveau 0 0 +25:13 GSE 51. Duez 0 0 +25:13 GSE 52. Clou 0 0 +25:13 GSE 53. Ciorbea 0 0 +25:13 FC ALBA 54. Cosmescu 0 0 +25:13 FC ALBA 55. Baeza 1 0 +25:13 C.C. Salajan 56. Bogoescu 1 0 +25:13 FC ALBA 57. Fidatof 0 0 +25:13 FC ALBA 58. Arcos 0 1 +25:13 C.C. Salajan 59. Vanderleen 0 0 +25:13 Ciclistii onanisti 60. Agosto 0 0 +25:13 C.C. Salajan 61. Barajas 0 0 +25:13 C.C. Salajan 62. Simoneau 0 2 +28:20 red dogs team 63. Schumacher 1 2 +28:20 DarkAngels 64. Bojin 0 1 +28:20 FC ALBA 11 cyclist are after 20.01 and 30 after 21.05 and 18 after 25.13. How is posible that? Cyclist have 65% till 95% fitness. What is your impresion ? |
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Post by gelies on Sept 23, 2007 10:09:46 GMT 1
there is a big discussion in belgian forum. I don't understand why nobody tells us what is happening...
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Post by stefkeswoon on Sept 23, 2007 10:59:28 GMT 1
It seems no bug is involved. The rankings and the groupings are definitly correct. The only point of discussion are the large time gaps between groups due to the grouping mechanism. All the members of a group get the time of the last cyclist. In combination with the specific race circumstances it gave weird time differences in yesterday's race.
They're now discussing how to avoid this in future (IP said he'll fix it before the start of the Giro), but a recalculation is not discussed at the moment, because it isn't a bug that causes problems.
This is what I understand from the discussion in the Belgian forum.
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Post by Il Padrino on Sept 23, 2007 11:00:40 GMT 1
Here's the deal:
The times of the cyclists are being grouped after each part in the race (flat, hill, mountain, ...), to form pelotons. The times were grouped from the last cyclist to the first. The problem, however, is when there are cyclists from inactive teams. Their times will be much slower compared to the times of active teams' cyclists. Thus their times dragged the times of the other cyclists with them, resulting in such big differences in time.
I have reversed the grouping, so from first to last, to overcome this effect. Only downside now is that the groups will be smaller and perhaps not as realistic. But that is a small cost, I think.
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Post by stefkeswoon on Sept 23, 2007 11:06:16 GMT 1
Tanx!
So I understand that the second race will be driven with the same grouping system, but with a different time mechanism?
By the way: I like the introduction of grouping during the race, but ehm... shouldn't this be something we ought to know? I mean: an announcement of this change might have been welcome, especially since it improves the credibility of the race engine a lot! It's something to be proud of ;D.
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Post by jjvdh on Sept 23, 2007 11:07:56 GMT 1
Yep that is a small cost... The game will become more realistic step by step, but it still is a game and has like in other games its own specific rules, game engine...  |
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Post by Il Padrino on Sept 23, 2007 11:16:41 GMT 1
Tanx! So I understand that the second race will be driven with the same grouping system, but with a different time mechanism? Yes. I'm not going to recalculate yesterday's race, because I'd have to load a backup from yesterday. And this would bring a list of other problems, like transfers, players who signed up between the race and now, etc. Well, it's not like it would matter in terms of tactics or something. The outcome of the races aren't different, it's just another mechanic in the engine. So it wasn't really necessary to announce it. The grouping during the race is only the first step for the race reports, which required this. |
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Post by captagon on Sept 23, 2007 11:18:14 GMT 1
won't grouping after each part flat/hill/mountain/downhill be beneficial for cyclists that are specialized in skills that come in long streches? I mean, there are a lot of stages with very long parts of flat, but hill and mountain for instance come in much smaller pieces. Won't it be much easier to "escape" if you're a flat rider and taking a lot of minutes, compared to mountain riders that only have 15km they can escape in?
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Post by Il Padrino on Sept 23, 2007 11:38:19 GMT 1
The distance of each part is taken into account. The longer the distance, the larger the time period of the grouping. The shorter the distance, the shorter the time period.
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Post by gelies on Sept 23, 2007 11:58:16 GMT 1
this modification seems really cool!
I hope that there are not going to be other problems like yesterday's one.
good work, but indeed, it would be nice to know it before!
anyway thumbs up! ;D ;D
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Post by albe89 on Sept 23, 2007 12:17:37 GMT 1
Tanx! So I understand that the second race will be driven with the same grouping system, but with a different time mechanism? Yes. I'm not going to recalculate yesterday's race, because I'd have to load a backup from yesterday. And this would bring a list of other problems, like transfers, players who signed up between the race and now, etc. Well, it's not like it would matter in terms of tactics or something. The outcome of the races aren't different, it's just another mechanic in the engine. So it wasn't really necessary to announce it. The grouping during the race is only the first step for the race reports, which required this. Are you sure that an announcement was not necessary? ? I lost two stages because of this change. Anyway, do we have to expect a big peloton in the flat race? It's important to know it, please write an announcement to make know everybody, not only forum users, what suddenly changed in Peloton. |
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Post by stefkeswoon on Sept 23, 2007 13:13:24 GMT 1
Again: the results (I mean: the rankings of the individual stages) have always been fair, so it is not possible that you 'lost' two stages because of these changes. There's only one thing you can complain about: that your best cyclist lost too much time in the first race of Romandie, resulting in a possible worse overall ranking in the end than expected.
Please read carefully what is said over here, before you complain.
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Post by rarau on Sept 23, 2007 14:55:17 GMT 1
Here's the deal: The times of the cyclists are being grouped after each part in the race (flat, hill, mountain, ...), to form pelotons. The times were grouped from the last cyclist to the first. The problem, however, is when there are cyclists from inactive teams. Their times will be much slower compared to the times of active teams' cyclists. Thus their times dragged the times of the other cyclists with them, resulting in such big differences in time. I have reversed the grouping, so from first to last, to overcome this effect. Only downside now is that the groups will be smaller and perhaps not as realistic. But that is a small cost, I think. I think now is more ok. The bot players are in the last places Gse, Salajan and Alba. Another question from now all the bots play in races? p.s sorry because i post the standing but in this way we can see better the changes. ps2 how is posible that 5 players of a team to be in same time with different fitness ? places 2-6 fiorentina cycling team 1. Brasen 0 1 5:06:05 LUPTATORII DIN RARAU 2. Puravet 0 0 +0 Fiorentina Cycling Team 3. Klanker 0 0 +0 Fiorentina Cycling Team 4. Dobre 0 0 +0 Fiorentina Cycling Team 5. Rahyer 0 0 +0 Fiorentina Cycling Team 6. Besengez 0 0 +0 Fiorentina Cycling Team 7. Mahal 0 0 +2:12 DarkAngels 8. Salvadore 1 0 +2:12 czw-team 9. Langbein 0 0 +2:12 DarkAngels 10. Rossi 0 0 +2:12 Kelme Costa Blanca Eurosport 11. Bojin 0 0 +2:12 czw-team 12. Calangelo 1 0 +2:12 Kelme Costa Blanca Eurosport 13. Dobos 1 0 +2:12 czw-team 14. De Luyck 0 0 +2:12 The Nations Top 15. Baboescu 0 0 +2:12 LUPTATORII DIN RARAU 16. Pietropinto 1 0 +2:12 Kelme Costa Blanca Eurosport 17. Geebelen 0 0 +2:12 czw-team 18. Del Pozo Ramos 1 0 +2:12 The Nations Top 19. Vanoirbeek 0 0 +2:12 czw-team 20. Rokos 1 0 +2:12 DarkAngels 21. Saguna 0 0 +2:12 The Nations Top 22. Silvrants 0 1 +3:13 velocity 23. Tatarescu 1 0 +3:13 LUPTATORII DIN RARAU 24. Mondragon 0 0 +3:13 Black_Cats 25. Stillemant 0 0 +3:13 LUPTATORII DIN RARAU 26. Georghiou 0 0 +3:13 Black_Cats 27. Lior 0 0 +3:13 Black_Cats 28. Tere 0 0 +3:13 velocity 29. Vlas 1 0 +3:13 velocity 30. Bettaver 1 0 +3:13 red dogs team 31. Caplain 0 1 +3:13 velocity 32. Grijze 0 0 +3:13 The Nations Top 33. Pedroza 0 0 +3:13 Black_Cats 34. Stanasila 0 0 +3:13 Black_Cats 35. Banciu 1 0 +3:13 velocity 36. Simoneau 0 0 +3:13 red dogs team 37. Knobloch 1 0 +3:13 DarkAngels 38. Valdes 0 0 +3:13 red dogs team 39. van der Want 0 0 +3:13 The Nations Top 40. Trelles 0 0 +3:13 LUPTATORII DIN RARAU 41. Ene 0 0 +3:13 Mistocarii SRL 42. Bochinsky 0 0 +3:13 Mistocarii SRL 43. Agosto 0 0 +4:19 C.C. Salajan 44. Prodan 0 1 +4:19 Mistocarii SRL 45. Radu 0 0 +4:19 Mistocarii SRL 46. Antonescu 0 0 +4:19 Mistocarii SRL 47. Boulianne 0 0 +4:19 GSE 48. Bockstael 1 0 +4:19 GSE 49. Claveau 0 0 +4:19 GSE 50. Clou 0 0 +4:19 GSE 51. Duez 0 0 +4:19 GSE 52. Tarangioli 1 0 +6:10 Kelme Costa Blanca Eurosport 53. Marraffino 1 0 +6:10 Kelme Costa Blanca Eurosport 54. Altamirano 0 1 +10:23 C.C. Salajan 55. Arcos 0 0 +10:23 C.C. Salajan 56. Barajas 1 0 +10:23 C.C. Salajan 57. Baeza 0 0 +10:23 C.C. Salajan 58. Bogoescu 0 0 +10:23 FC ALBA 59. Ciorbea 0 0 +10:23 FC ALBA 60. Fidatof 0 0 +10:23 FC ALBA 61. Cosmescu 0 0 +11:26 FC ALBA 62. Vanderleen 0 0 +11:26 Ciclistii onanisti 63. Bojin 0 0 +11:26 FC ALBA |
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Post by Il Padrino on Sept 23, 2007 15:04:37 GMT 1
Bots have always participated in races, it's no different than before.
And different fitness does not mean everything. There are lots of factors that matter in the result; skills, attributes, tactics, ...
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Post by sila on Sept 23, 2007 17:17:29 GMT 1
I wonder if the importance of numbers of cyclist in your team has change?
In Romania 1.1 the winer in today race is cyclist from a team that have 2 cyclist.
Yesterday they finish in peloton and today race isn't that diferent from the yesterday race!
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