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Post by zimba on May 18, 2009 19:52:52 GMT 1
Now that the game has evolved, with many cyclists already given 7 seasons of training, wouldn't it be better to include 21y olds to youth ?
Certainly on the higher levels, there's not much to win for a cyclist turning to the age of 21. A few seasons ago, a really talented one could still become a regular points taker within one season. But now he'll have to wait at least two or even three more seasons before climbing to a decent level to compete.
Also, given that we can even 'pull' cyclists of 21, 22 and 23, such ones even have less to play for. Ok, you can keep training them and after a while they could still become good cyclists. But I'm only noticing that now that the best ones have even become much better, the gap has grown too big. So the only thing left is trying to train them until you can sell them for a decent amount.
Or maybe just have different caps for youth : - 1st division : up to 22y - 2nd division : up to 21y - 3rd & lower : up to 20y
What do you think ?
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Post by Mike on May 18, 2009 19:57:40 GMT 1
My opinion:
-You can pull cyclists with a YOUTH-scout upto 23 -Competing for the white (youth) jersey upto 20
Conclusion: Something's wrong!
A youthscout should only be able to pull youth (obvious no?) Then there are 2 possible solutions:
1. Youthscout pulls upto 21 2. White jersey is upto 23
Anything else just isn't logical.
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Post by Schizm on May 18, 2009 20:20:05 GMT 1
In my opinion : pull up the minimum age for youth pulls, that way it is more realistic (talented cyclists start their carreer around 21, 22 ... 20 or 19 year old pro-cyclists are very exceptional) and carreers for cyclist in peloton are just to long anyway, 17 seasons of growth is a long time and even after that they will stay on a high level for several seasons.
so youthscouts pull between 21 and 23 year olds, white jersey till 24 years (4 seasons max). After 9 seasons their FA will decrease every week to reach zero after 3 seasons and after that skills themself will decrease (even if they arent't trained). Like this talented young cyclist will have their breakthru sooner.
And I wouldn't make that variable per division, I think it should be the same for everyone.
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Post by Pissboy on May 19, 2009 1:07:36 GMT 1
In my opinion : pull up the minimum age for youth pulls, that way it is more realistic (talented cyclists start their carreer around 21, 22 ... 20 or 19 year old pro-cyclists are very exceptional) and carreers for cyclist in peloton are just to long anyway, 17 seasons of growth is a long time and even after that they will stay on a high level for several seasons. so youthscouts pull between 21 and 23, white jersey till 24 years (4 seasons max). After 9 seasons they FA will decrease every week to reach zero after 3 seasons and after that skills themself will decrease (even if they arent't trained). Like this talented young cyclist will have their breakthru sooner. And I wouldn't make that variable per division, I think it should be the same for everyone. that's a good idea and probably not hard to implent at all, it should be able change in the not too far future i think.
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Post by iwander71 on May 19, 2009 5:46:21 GMT 1
I must admit that this is something that I would like to see happen too.
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Post by Schizm on May 19, 2009 6:54:33 GMT 1
In my opinion : pull up the minimum age for youth pulls, that way it is more realistic (talented cyclists start their carreer around 21, 22 ... 20 or 19 year old pro-cyclists are very exceptional) and carreers for cyclist in peloton are just to long anyway, 17 seasons of growth is a long time and even after that they will stay on a high level for several seasons. so youthscouts pull between 21 and 23 year olds, white jersey till 24 years (4 seasons max). After 9 seasons their FA will decrease every week to reach zero after 3 seasons and after that skills themself will decrease (even if they arent't trained). Like this talented young cyclist will have their breakthru sooner. And I wouldn't make that variable per division, I think it should be the same for everyone. that's a good idea and probably not hard to implent at all, it should be able change in the not too far future i think. coding it isn't the hard part, but what to do with all those 18-20 year olds who are in the database now. A gradual approach (pull up the minimum age season by season) would take at least 3 seasons. But even then that would give a to big advantage to those with a 18 year old now. So the only right way to do this is to age every cyclist 3 extra years. I can tell you one thing : this measure will be very unpopular. P.S. : about the rl cycling part; look slike I was mistaking, in protour teams the birthyear seems to be indeed at least 1988 now, but aspecially in continental teams who'se main goal is to educate youngsters (like f.i. Jong vlaanderen en Rabobank CT) a birthyear of 1990 is not that exceptional.
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Post by Pissboy on May 19, 2009 11:33:48 GMT 1
hmm, maybe you're right, but at least there should be find a compromise soon, so the gradual approach can start asap (next season). You could also pull up the minimum age once every 2 season, as long as somthing is going on ... .
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Post by chakra on May 19, 2009 17:35:31 GMT 1
I do not see the problem of a 18yrs old/young racer? Do I miss something. This is a virtual world, you know!
The only logic thing I see to change is to pull up the age for the white jerseys, or lower the max age to 20. I would say: YS pulls from 18 - 23 yrs. and white jersey for racers from 18 - 23 yrs.
And I do not see any reason at all to change in the different divisions.
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Post by walt on May 19, 2009 18:14:47 GMT 1
I think chakra is completely right about that. Because youthscouts can pull cylists from 18 till 23 years, it is at least logic that they can win youngster jerseys too. Not that it makes such a big difference, but it seems more fair.
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Post by zimba on May 19, 2009 18:55:24 GMT 1
I would keep it that scouts can pull from 18y old up to 23y old. Nothing wrong with that. Occasionally, you see such a youngster among the pros. Even some are able to achieve some results ! For instance Ciolek becoming German champ at young age. Cunego & Ullrich winning giant tours at young age. William Walker is another one. And there are more.
If you manage to attract a very talented 18y old, he could start riding well around the age of 21 (depending a little on which division you're in). But if you would bring the underlimit towards 21y, then they would be 24 before they could start achieving their first decent results.
But at least the white jersey could work differently. And indeed, maybe up to 23y olds would be most logical.
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Post by berdios on May 31, 2009 17:10:26 GMT 1
I have anther sugestion but i dont know or it is mentiont yet somewhere ... So, can we get al bonus for the winner of the Youth Rankings in tours ? Cuz i used to win the a lot but it just has no use ...
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Post by Mike on May 31, 2009 18:11:30 GMT 1
you get points for winning youth-jersey... that's a bonus
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Post by berdios on Jun 1, 2009 18:00:41 GMT 1
hmm that, i didnt know ... Where can i find that ?
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Post by jmc7 on Jun 1, 2009 19:00:13 GMT 1
30 points for the winner of the white jersey
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Post by chakra on Jun 1, 2009 22:38:29 GMT 1
wiki:
30 - 20 - 10 - 5 - 3 points for ranking youngster 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5. From sixth place zero points.
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